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Old 10-23-2008, 08:02 AM   #16
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SPA Wiring


Does anyone else think those wires are 8 gauge and not 6 gauge like they should be? I see a 50 amp breaker at that disconnect panel, one could only hope that there is a 40 amp breaker in the main panel protecting that circuit if those truly are 8 gauge wires...

The wires running from the disconnect to the spa look like they were stripped out of a piece of romex. I've seen the pre-wired bundles of the liquid-tite and they use an insulated green in those bundles. I don't believe that section of liquid-tite came with those wires in there, looks like the same wire that is running to the disconnect panel.

Also, the wires running into the connection panel in the spa, shouldn't those be protected all the way up to that plastic grommet? Like with the continuation of the liquid-tite?

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Old 10-23-2008, 08:07 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
Does anyone else think those wires are 8 gauge and not 6 gauge like they should be? I see a 50 amp breaker at that disconnect panel, one could only hope that there is a 40 amp breaker in the main panel protecting that circuit if those truly are 8 gauge wires...

The wires running from the disconnect to the spa look like they were stripped out of a piece of romex. I've seen the pre-wired bundles of the liquid-tite and they use an insulated green in those bundles. I don't believe that section of liquid-tite came with those wires in there, looks like the same wire that is running to the disconnect panel.

Also, the wires running into the connection panel in the spa, shouldn't those be protected all the way up to that plastic grommet? Like with the continuation of the liquid-tite?
They look like 6, but they also look like stripped NM.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
Does anyone else think those wires are 8 gauge and not 6 gauge like they should be? I see a 50 amp breaker at that disconnect panel, one could only hope that there is a 40 amp breaker in the main panel protecting that circuit if those truly are 8 gauge wires...

The wires running from the disconnect to the spa look like they were stripped out of a piece of romex. I've seen the pre-wired bundles of the liquid-tite and they use an insulated green in those bundles. I don't believe that section of liquid-tite came with those wires in there, looks like the same wire that is running to the disconnect panel.

Also, the wires running into the connection panel in the spa, shouldn't those be protected all the way up to that plastic grommet? Like with the continuation of the liquid-tite?
That is a good question, i don't know if they are 6 or 8 gauge, they are thick I would save 1/4 inch. All wiring used was the wiring originally installed by an electrician.

When i think romex i think of the wires in my house. the wires used here are 4 wires in a black sheath. Is that also romex?


The liguid-tite goes to a connector at the side of the spa, then stays inside, it has been like that since new 12 years ago. I've seen pre-wired liquid-tite as well, but never with thick gauge wire, only with 14 guage or smaller.

There is also a 50 amp breaker in the house. Maybe some background info will help. This SPA was installed at a different location 12 years ago (when we bought it new) by an electrician. I moved and used all the same setup removed from the old house, except replacing the disconnect box with a new one (same as old).
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:57 AM   #19
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Well, now, let's not get all crazy. This isn't a world ending violation. Yes it is a piece of NM. Yes the ground is bare. Yes the neutral is not necessary and is causing the trip. The OP has a few options:

1)Disconnect the white, and cap it. Continue the ground from the frame up to the green terminal.

2)Disconnect the bare ground. Remove the white at the breaker and place it on the ground bar. Color green with marker or tape.

3)Replace the wires in the liquid-tite with three new wires: #6 black, #6 red, #10 green.

4)Call electrician back. Tell him you've paid him for the job and it needs to be right, dammit!

Option 1 is a technical code violation because the wire is bare, but is pretty minor as far as violations go.

Option 2 is a technical code violation because you have to recolor a wire that is smaller than #4. Super minor.

Option 3 is expensive, and you've already spent alot.

Option 4 would be fun, but doesn't serve much purpose.

I'd go with #2.
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:02 AM   #20
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lol, what makes it not safe?

I'll also have to disagree with you, most electrical work a educated homeowner can perform. I agree, there are some things that require a licensed electrician, but simple wiring does not.
Generally The electrical code and safety are one in the same. I'd hesitate to call anything safe that has code violations.

It scares me when I see people just do things that they are not sure about, then they turn it on, and if it works, they assume it is done properly and safe.

I don't necessarily know how to do all the residential wiring in my home, but as getting quite close to understanding everything. I know the work I do is always correct, safe, and up to code. If I am not sure, I don't do it, I make a call to find out the code, or come on here and ask to find out the proper safe way to do something.

My point is:
1. I highly encourage you to follow all the codes with everything.
2. If you are not positive about the right way to do something, find out, it isn't always safe to just try things until they work, then if they work assume they are safe.

There are some people that should NOT be touching any electrical beyond plugging in there vacuum.

Good Luck with your project, however you decide to finish it off. It does sound like you only have a couple small changes to make. I would verify that the wire you have is the proper size. When you use the proper wire, like THHN in conduit, it is labeled the whole way on the insulator. If the wire is not labeled for some reason, like it came out of a piece of romex, then I am not sure how to measure the gage. Having the proper gage is a very important safety issue.

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Old 10-23-2008, 10:54 AM   #21
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Just wanted to let everyone know that I moved the white wire coming from the SPA out of the GFCI breaker and into the grounding bar on the left side of the SPA box in the picture shown. Now everything works great and the GFCI breaker works correctly.

Disclaimer: This is not up to code, but is safe.
Why did you move the white to the ground bus bar? The white should have been abandoned and the ground connected to where the white was on the terminal strip. It is clearly marked "GROUND". You do not need a neutral for the GFCI to work. Your tub is 240 volt.

It's only as safe as you want to believe. It is clearly wired wrong. And your attitude is more dangerous than your wiring.

Why did you even come to this forum? If your going to do it your way anyway, why take up space here that could be used to actually help someone.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:21 AM   #22
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Why did you move the white to the ground bus bar? The white should have been abandoned and the ground connected to where the white was on the terminal strip. It is clearly marked "GROUND". You do not need a neutral for the GFCI to work. Your tub is 240 volt.

It's only as safe as you want to believe. It is clearly wired wrong. And your attitude is more dangerous than your wiring.

Why did you even come to this forum? If your going to do it your way anyway, why take up space here that could be used to actually help someone.
The white wire is now acting as the ground. At least this way, there is an insulated ground. The bare wire should be disconnected at both ends.
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:55 PM   #23
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The white wire is now acting as the ground. At least this way, there is an insulated ground. The bare wire should be disconnected at both ends.
This is what i did, he is just upset because the wire isn't green. We can nickname him the wire racist, it's all about color, not what is on the inside.

Actually posting on here really helped me both with the advice on here and with my understanding of 240v systems.
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:57 PM   #24
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When i think romex i think of the wires in my house. the wires used here are 4 wires in a black sheath. Is that also romex?
Yes, this is also romex. Also against code to string it in conduit or liquid tite for the entire run, even more so outside as it is not rated for outdoor use. You must use THWN wires in conduit/liquid tite or UF cable rated for direct burial (but can be run in conduit outside).

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The liguid-tite goes to a connector at the side of the spa, then stays inside, it has been like that since new 12 years ago. I've seen pre-wired liquid-tite as well, but never with thick gauge wire, only with 14 guage or smaller.
The wires not being protected inside the spa probably isnt that big of a deal, so long as the liquid tite is secured to the outside of the spa which it sounds like it is.

They sell the pre-wired liquid tite sections at the hardware store intended for like air conditioner hook-ups. Comes pre-wired and with the connectors on the ends for terminating it to a box/disconnect and the aircondionter unit. Funny thing is ive never seen the liquid tite with 14 or 12 gauge wire, but have seen it with the 6 guage wire.
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:57 PM   #25
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This is what i did, he is just upset because the wire isn't green. We can nickname him the wire racist, it's all about color, not what is on the inside.

Actually posting on here really helped me both with the advice on here and with my understanding of 240v systems.
That's really not fair. The wire colors really do matter. They help identify the wire's purpose.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:03 PM   #26
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That is true, I will put a green peice of tape on each end.

After doing some research online I see that the bundled cable I have has THHN wires inside of it that meet THWN specs. Is that typical, and why would they not be appropriate outside if they meet THWN specs?
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:00 PM   #27
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That is true, I will put a green peice of tape on each end.

After doing some research online I see that the bundled cable I have has THHN wires inside of it that meet THWN specs. Is that typical, and why would they not be appropriate outside if they meet THWN specs?
How do you know that particular wire you have is THHN/THWN? Romex is NOT acceptable for use outdoors and especially in conduit (except where permitted for physical protection). You'd have to look at the jacket of the wire for any markings, but with it being romex, I highly doubt you will find any markings on the wire itself, it would be on the jacket of the romex buried in the conduit and liquid tite.

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