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Old 12-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #1
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Siemens panel conversion


I want to change the sub panel in my house from a 20 space to a 30 space. I have an electrician doing the work in a few weeks, but I just want to understand something. I have a 30 space siemens panel which says it is convertible from a main load center to a lug center. The panel we are going to change is being fed from my 200a main panel via a 100a breaker, so I'm sure this new panel is going to have to be converted from a load center to a lug center. The 100a breaker that came with the panel is bolted on by two nuts. To do this conversion, does this breaker have to come out and be replaced with something that would just have two lugs on it?



Siemens panel conversion-image-3130230409.jpg



Siemens panel conversion-image-1093048755.jpg


Thank you!!

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Old 12-27-2012, 09:52 AM   #2
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Siemens panel conversion


What about adding a 2nd subpanel vice replacing?

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Old 12-27-2012, 09:57 AM   #3
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Siemens panel conversion


If the panel you are feeding this from is in another building then you need to have a main breaker in the panel. If it's fed from the same building you can buy lugs and convert it to a main lug panel but just as easy to leave it the way it is.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:12 AM   #4
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Siemens panel conversion


There is no reason to remove the main breaker from the sub. It will function just fine as is.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:33 PM   #5
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Siemens panel conversion


If I leave it the way it is now, there would be a 100a breaker in my main panel controlling this sub panel, and another 100a breaker in this panel. Is it ok to have two breakers controlling the same panel?

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Old 12-27-2012, 02:42 PM   #6
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Siemens panel conversion


NO problem with two breakers as long the one in the main panel is the proper size for the cable being used.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:42 PM   #7
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Siemens panel conversion


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Originally Posted by mazzonetv
If I leave it the way it is now, there would be a 100a breaker in my main panel controlling this sub panel, and another 100a breaker in this panel. Is it ok to have two breakers controlling the same panel?
absolutely. That's the way a subpanel is fed. It just gives an extra overcurrent protection for the subpanel, which is fine
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #8
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Siemens panel conversion


Before you replace your panel to go from 20 to 30 breaker positions, have you checked to see if you panel will accept tandem or twin breakers?
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:51 PM   #9
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Siemens panel conversion


It will accept tandem breakers, in fact I have a few. The reason why I want to change it is that I have a generac guardian generator picking up 9 circuits from inside the existing panel. Between that, and new circuits we've added, the panel is getting "congested". While I have everything open and exposed I figured it would be a good time to put the larger panel in.

Thanks again!
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:43 PM   #10
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Siemens panel conversion


Doesn't the generator take those circuits AWAY from the panel? When I installed my generator it opened up 10 spaces...2 which were filled with the feeder breaker for the generator panel.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:31 PM   #11
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Siemens panel conversion


It does, but the neutrals are still taking up space in the panel, not to mention all of the connections from the circuits being moved to the generator panel. As we have added more circuits, the Panel is getting fuller and fuller and is looking sloppy. While I have all of the walls open I figured it was a good time to install a larger panel and "neaten" everything up.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:35 PM   #12
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Siemens panel conversion


The neutrals will need to move to the generator panel.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:32 PM   #13
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Siemens panel conversion


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Originally Posted by mazzonetv View Post
It does, but the neutrals are still taking up space in the panel, not to mention all of the connections from the circuits being moved to the generator panel. As we have added more circuits, the Panel is getting fuller and fuller and is looking sloppy. While I have all of the walls open I figured it was a good time to install a larger panel and "neaten" everything up.

Got it. Take a picture. One issue I have with tandem breakers is that they allow more circuits in a panel which may be getting crowded already. You did connect the neutrals to the generator panel, right?
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:22 AM   #14
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Siemens panel conversion


I didn't hook up the generator - had an electrician do that last year and all has been working well. It's one of those generac pre wired transfer switches and As far as I know the neutrals for the individual circuits are still in the panel and there is a neutral wire from the transfer switch that goes to the neutral bar in the main panel. I will double check the instructions, but over the last year I had the original installation double checked by an electrician and the company that services these generators - with the exception of the original installer being sloppy all was hooked up properly (so I've been told).

The original installer ran the flex conduit for the transfer switch to the main panel and switched a few circuits from that main panel to the generator. What he did next was very sloppy and that's why I want to have everything neatened up. He used a wire nut inside the main panel to connect the leads from the transfer switch to "wires" going to the sub panel where he picked up 9 circuits. I put wires In quotes because he used some Romex, thnn, whatever he had and it just looks sloppy-plus he didnt use the right connectors on many of these wires. At the time the basement was all finished so he has 2 junction boxes between the main panel and sub panel where the wires are wire nutted and pieces together. It's all runs outside of my house, underground in seal tite, and back in the house to the sub panel. While everything is open - courtesy of sandy - t want to run a piece of 3/4 greenfield (flex metal conduit) between the two panels and keep everything inside "high and dry". We are in nyc so everything should be in armored cable.

Wow - a long way off from my original post but I certainly appreciate everyone's input. While I have everything open I want this all neatened up and done right.

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