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Old 09-17-2010, 05:35 PM   #1
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


I have 4 breakers to swap out in a restaurant for under the hood circuits.

I have them in hand. I have 2 lugs for rhe shunt coil operation. I have read elsewhere I need a neutral but this sounds improbable as neithe lug is de-noted to be such. Neither do they have different color screws.

I need to get this done asap so my partner and i can open for business...

I have installed shunt trips many years ago when doing electrical work for my career, but that was only a few times and many years ago.

So how the heck does one wire these.

Brent


Last edited by hogdogs; 09-17-2010 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:56 PM   #2
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


what is the part number of the breaker?

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Old 09-17-2010, 05:57 PM   #3
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


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Originally Posted by hogdogs View Post
I have 4 breakers to swap out in a restaurant for under the hood circuits.

I have them in hand. I have 2 lugs for rhe shunt coil operation. I have read elsewhere I need a neutral but this sounds improbable as neithe lug is de-noted to be such. Neither do they have different color screws.

I need to get this done asap so my partner and i can open for business...

I have installed shunt trips many years ago when doing electrical work for my career, but that was only a few times and many years ago.

So how the heck does one wire these.

Brent
On the shunt-trip coils I've seen, one screw is hot, one is neutral. Doesn't matter which is which, it's just a coil.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:12 PM   #4
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


Nap, You are quick to judge...
I have 6 years as "the only employee" with more than half a dozen Denny's rest. remodels, half a dozen fast food rest. remodels including taco bell, KFC and Long John Silvers. Only a few times did a Shunt trip application come into the work. And since me and the electrical contractor did the work of much larger crews it was hectic. Only one Denny's needed more than one week for the GC so we we were working too hard and fast to stop and learn everything I wished to learn. 7 days total with sunday being the time I demo out the electrical so the GC guys could get started. monday and tuesday were left with little to do and hopefully wednesday I could get busy. I wasn't a journeyman. My boss was a 63+ yo old guy so he was the brains and did pretty much all the work. I have more days at 22+ hours than most prima dona union guys would do in a full career.

I have several "school jobs" and one large softball complex under my belt. I did take the Tom Henry "code school" for master electrician ( I wasn't going after a license), since we were just miles from his home and school building and my boss and Tom were on first name basis and my boss could call him anytime he wanted the ACE to answer a question and just because my boss felt the $300.00 would be well spent, and it was...

Here is our ball park...
http://www.volusia.org/parks/bennett.htm
This was he and I from under ground to completion including the concrete light poles we set with a lull lift. We used 2 day laborers for under 20 days. We also had to provide the under ground and wiring for the Musco lighting, of course.

And this school got a new girls locker room and classroom wing.
http://blackboard.volusia.k12.fl.us/...rse_id=_810_1/

Sorry, Bud but you are sorely mistaken and I am not going to hold that against you. Some folks tend to jump to conclusions without first qualifying their opinion.
would I have liked to learn more? SURE! Would I like to remember half of what I forgot? Sure! Would I like to have had slow moving learning format vo-tech jobs? NOT A CHANCE! I loved every high pressure minute!

I was glad I couldn't live up to the nickname of "slacktrician"!

Now would you just care to answer the question?
Brent

Last edited by hogdogs; 09-17-2010 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:18 PM   #5
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


I've reached the limit of my knowledge, sorry. Maybe one of the pros here will help you.

For reference though, commercial fire equipment is a little out-of-scope for this site..
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:24 PM   #6
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


Okay! Thanks a bunch McSteve! I just thought that in todays litigious society, they would label one or have 2 different screw colors even if it didn't matter.

So my Ansul box has 3 wire colors, red, black and brown. I am guessing I need to run a neutral to one. But with just one hot from the shunt, I have one I need to land somewhere to complete the circuit from the N/O micro switch.

Brent

Last edited by hogdogs; 09-17-2010 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:40 PM   #7
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


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Okay! Thanks a bunch McSteve! I just thought that in todays litigious society, they would label one or have 2 different screw colors even if it didn't matter.

So my Ansul box has 3 wire colors, red, black and brown. I am guessing I need to run a neutral to one. But with just one hot from the shunt, I have one I need to land somewhere to complete the circuit from the N/O micro switch.

Brent
You have no idea what you are doing. I seriously doubt you have done any pro electrical work before, especially considering the questions posed in your other thread.

You were given all the info you should need yet you come up with the statement above. You are so far off the mark you have shown this is beyond you.

and yes, I do know what I am doing with a system such as this. I have wired many systems in my years as a pro electrician.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:29 PM   #8
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thanks

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Old 09-17-2010, 07:38 PM   #9
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


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Now would you just care to answer the question?
Brent
No because you have no idea what you are doing.

You were given all the info needed to design your circuit already. If you cannot design your circuit from what was given and what you have on hand, you have no business doing this kind of work.



To do electrical work in Florida you need to be certified by the Electrical Contractors Licensing Board. Are you saying you worked illegally?
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:54 PM   #10
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thanks

Last edited by hogdogs; 09-17-2010 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:13 PM   #11
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hogdogs;503050]"Helpers" did not have to have a "card" when I worked in the field. Things may be different now. Illegally? Sure! I also didn't require my boss cover me with comp. as I knew he would hock the farm to cover any injury. The only injuries were $300-500 for stitches a few times...
the park isn't that old. Things aren't any different now than when the park was built. Electricians (which you claimed to have worked as) require a license.

Quote:
Rather than to spend the valuable off duty hours questioning if I worked in the field or if I worked illegally for an ol' guy who thought as much of the insurance industry as I did... And I was to do so as he rather pay me the 40% comp wanted on my CASH paycheck. So, here in florida I did well as a "helper" making no less than $16 per hour when the other "helpers" were lucky to see $10 bucks...
Cash means nothing unless by cash, you mean you worked "under the table" and failed to report your income and pay the legally required taxes you were supposed to.

and Worker's comp insurance is legally required.

So, since it is apparent you (and your former boss) have no respect for doing things the legal and proper way and you are dealing with a life safety system and doing work in a commercial establishment without a license, I think I will just leave it as it is.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:19 PM   #12
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thanks

Last edited by hogdogs; 09-17-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:35 PM   #13
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OH!!! He was a stickler for "code" and even more so regarding "Issues of life safety"...
As for bucking the insurance "machine"... I would do it all over again...
No sense in paying 40% of a single employee's wage when you are willing and able to cover any injuries out of pocket... It is what is called SELF INSURED...
Brent
since you have no problem with somebody working illegally, I suspect your installation will be installed with the same disregard for the law.


You enjoy yourself now.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:45 PM   #14
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


Short of it being done by the "owners" there will be nothing done that isn't up to or above code...

Thus, the reason I sought INFO to do it right the first time... everything must work before we call for the inspection... And our local code allows "owners" to do any work required as long as it will meet current codes. But I was just confused on the actual wiring of the shunt trip section. As previously stated, I had only had to do a few in the past. And I would get my info, do the work and hurry on to next task...

But I also had to work in hot panels more often than many have needed to.

Brent

Last edited by hogdogs; 09-17-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:05 PM   #15
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Shunt Trip Square D QO wiring help.


You are on a DIY homeowners forum and your asking how to wire an ansul system in a commercial restaurant ?

There is no electrical contractor on the job site ??

No disrespect intended but you seem to have no respect for being legal about much of anything.

Bold and underlining mine

Quote:
So my Ansul box has 3 wire colors, red, black and brown. I am guessing I need to run a neutral to one. But with just one hot from the shunt, I have one I need to land somewhere to complete the circuit from the N/O micro switch.
So since your guessing about the shunt trips ..and oh yes you used to know how to wire them .. you come to a homeowners diy forum to see if someone would be foolish enough to design your circuit and tell you the wiring design that you should already know before even thinking about wiring that ansul under hood fire suppression system.

And lets say you get someone to do that ... seems you wouldn't know if it was right or wrong ...no? And you would do it anyway.... pretty scary IMO.

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Last edited by Stubbie; 09-17-2010 at 10:07 PM.
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