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Old 05-23-2013, 03:22 PM   #1
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Hi all,

I am installing a Square D QO subpanel right off of my QO main panel in the attached garage. The purpose of it is to install four 120V and three 240V circuits in my garage. I will have a 70A breaker in the main panel feeding it and have purchased four lengths of 6AWG THHN wire (black, red, white and green). I think I could of got by with a smaller ground but didn't look into it. The run is only like 5ft. The questions:

1) I can use a main lug panel since the feeding breaker in the main panel right next to it can serve as the disconnect, correct?

2) My wiring is correct? The two hots to the double pole breaker in the main panel, the neutral to the neutral bars in both panels and the ground to the ground bars in both panels.

3) I do NOT screw in the bonding screw in the subpanel to keep the neutrals and grounds separate, correct?

4) I do not have to install ground rods like I did my subpanel out in my shed since this subpanel is within the attached building?

5) Can I run two circuits -- a 120V and a 240V -- in one EMT conduit run? That would be three hots, a neutral for the 120V, and a common ground for both circuits. That way I can install 120V and 240V receptacles in the same conduit run, but still have them on separate circuits?

Thanks!

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Old 05-23-2013, 03:31 PM   #2
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Yes to all 5 questions. For #5 the ground must be sized to the largest amperage circuit. Ex: if the 120 circuit is 15 amps and the 240 is 20 amps, the ground must be #12

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Old 05-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #3
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That's great, thanks. Do you think pulling the six #12 conductors in a 1/2" EMT conduit will be too difficult? The runs won't be incredibly long, although there may be up to 360 degrees in bends. I ask because my dad actually has a 1/2" conduit bender, and if I could use it then that would save $45 on a 3/4" bender. Maybe if I pull the conductors up to each 10' piece as I go along.

Also, is there anything wrong with buying a different color conductor for one of the hots (like blue or orange)? I have black and red but there will be three hots in that conduit so I'd like to be able to easily identify them.

Thanks!
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonD View Post
That's great, thanks.

Also, is there anything wrong with buying a different color conductor for one of the hots (like blue or orange)? I have black and red but there will be three hots in that conduit so I'd like to be able to easily identify them.

Thanks!
As a matter of fact, blue and orange are code required. Just put a spot of black tape on the end.

Good luck to ya

Peter

Oh... by the way... Go Broncos
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:40 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
As a matter of fact, blue and orange are code required. Just put a spot of black tape on the end.

Good luck to ya

Peter

Oh... by the way... Go Broncos
Citation, please
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:02 AM   #6
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Citation, please
NFL Commision 2/superbowldate(2014) Local Amendment
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:14 AM   #7
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NFL Commision 2/superbowldate(2014) Local Amendment
Well isn't that a snappy answer
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:11 AM   #8
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As a matter of fact, blue and orange are code required. Just put a spot of black tape on the end.
Do you really believe this?
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
As a matter of fact, blue and orange are code required. Just put a spot of black tape on the end.

Good luck to ya

Peter

Oh... by the way... Go Broncos
This is not correct.

To require team colors on the wire first requires your team winning the Superbowl. If I remember correctly, the Ravens beat the Broncos- in one of the best playoff games ever IMO.

GO RAVENS!
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:02 AM   #10
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Sounds like we have some sports fans. The blue/orange combination would be more fitting the the Florida Gators but we'll go with whatever you want

No one has objected to the use of it, so I'll likely pick up a roll of blue for the project. Do I have to tape the ends black?

I decided I will at least attempt it with 1/2" conduit first (will only buy the conduit for the first run). That way if it doesn't work out I'm only out like $3 vs. the possibility of buying a $45 tool I don't need.

Hope to work on this next week. Anniversary weekend so I won't be spending any of it out in my shop. I'll be sure to let you guys know how it goes. I'm not too happy with the location of the panel because I'll effectively be blocking the knockouts on both sides of the panel (right side will be the main panel and the left side will have a door right next to it -- you can get an idea of where it'll be in the pic below). I think I'd rather have it there though to keep the panels in one place.

Q - I have to get one conduit over to the right in the pic. Would you go out the bottom of the subpanel and beneath the generator panel and back up or would you go up and bend the pipe to go over the large conduit entering my main panel?


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Old 05-24-2013, 08:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm11 View Post
This is not correct.

To require team colors on the wire first requires your team winning the Superbowl. If I remember correctly, the Ravens beat the Broncos- in one of the best playoff games ever IMO.

GO RAVENS!
MM.... OK maybe it's a proposed amendment. Geez.... I'll bet you or I coulda defended that flaky (spelling?) hail-mary.

Ooops... maybe I'd better shut-up... while I'm behind.

Peter
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
Do you really believe this?
Hope springs eternal in the human football heart.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:39 AM   #13
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Black, red, and blue are low voltage (120V) colors, so using blue wire works great. Just choose 1 color and make that your 120V circuit.

The wire shouldn't be hard to pull- up to (9) #12 THHN are fine in 1/2" EMT.

As to the raceway routing question, if you can bend a good 3 point saddle I would go over the feed up top- make sure to not block the top of the panel however.

Question for you- why not set the sub to the right of the main? You could still have access to one side or each panel.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm11 View Post
Black, red, and blue are low voltage (120V) colors, so using blue wire works great. Just choose 1 color and make that your 120V circuit.

The wire shouldn't be hard to pull- up to (9) #12 THHN are fine in 1/2" EMT.

As to the raceway routing question, if you can bend a good 3 point saddle I would go over the feed up top- make sure to not block the top of the panel however.

Question for you- why not set the sub to the right of the main? You could still have access to one side or each panel.
Yeah, I did look at the conduit fill chart and found I could put nine in 1/2", but I always read on here to up-size your conduit for ease of pulling. I figure I can always pull at the end of each length of conduit as I run it, though.

Good question. That wall pictured in one of the side garage walls. Only one run of conduit (with both 120 & 240 in it) will go to the right. At least three runs (each with 120 & 240 in it) will go to the left for the other two walls and ceiling in the garage. So I either put it to the right and run three conduits across the main panel or put it to the left and run one conduit across the main panel.

There's plenty of knockouts on the top and bottom of the panel so I'm not too worried, I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot for future circuits, but I can't foresee any. We might be adding a pool but that would likely go into the main panel.

Last edited by BrandonD; 05-24-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:02 AM   #15
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There is no need to tape a blue or orange wire to indicate it is a hot. The blue and orange colour do that.

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