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Old 06-13-2012, 07:20 AM   #16
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shocking range


Thanks for all the responses. I am going up there this evening when she gets off work and hopefully get the thing checked out.
Seems like years ago, some people would just ground it to a waterline.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:11 AM   #17
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Grounding the range to a water line is not safe.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:59 AM   #18
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He did have water running over his hand when he touched the stove.

Yeah, I know, bright idea.
I'd go easy on the SIL. Electrical safety shouldn't depend on some set of complex rules like don't touch this while using that or avoid this while doing that. It should be safe no matter the combination and order of things happening.

The problem here is the range chassis is not at ground potential. It has become elevated, probably by a neutral problem in a 3 wire circuit. I guess there is an off chance the plumbing is electrified and the range is bonded but that seems much more of a long shot (note 1). If you have a digital volt meter measure from stove chassis to metal water pipe. Then try turning on this and that (particularly things that are likely 125VAC like lights or controls) with the stove to see if that voltage bounces around.

Should be easy enough to fix. Find where the neutral has become compromised in the feeder circuit. Either at panel or range most likely. Hopefully there are no junction points between these two.


Note 1 Sometime house plumbing is floating electrically for one or both of these reasons. a) A water softener was installed and the bonding of the electrical wasn't continued across a plastic water softener manifold b) The water heater has dielectric couplings to protect the (steel) tank from galvanic corrosion. The copper side should be bonded together (Hot and cold).

Last edited by curiousB; 06-13-2012 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:20 PM   #19
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Grounding the range to a water line is not safe.
I was thinking I was told once to ground a washing machine to a water line.

That maybe the reason I have heard of some plumbers being killed by coming into contact with energized pipes?

I get what is meant by the pipe connection to the earth being broken sometimes. I mean like maybe a pvc dresser coupling used in a repair.

Last edited by boman47k; 06-13-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:26 PM   #20
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I'd go easy on the SIL. Electrical safety shouldn't depend on some set of complex rules like don't touch this while using that or avoid this while doing that. It should be safe no matter the combination and order of things happening.

The problem here is the range chassis is not at ground potential. It has become elevated, probably by a neutral problem in a 3 wire circuit. I guess there is an off chance the plumbing is electrified and the range is bonded but that seems much more of a long shot (note 1). If you have a digital volt meter measure from stove chassis to metal water pipe. Then try turning on this and that (particularly things that are likely 125VAC like lights or controls) with the stove to see if that voltage bounces around.

Should be easy enough to fix. Find where the neutral has become compromised in the feeder circuit. Either at panel or range most likely. Hopefully there are no junction points between these two.


Note 1 Sometime house plumbing is floating electrically for one or both of these reasons. a) A water softener was installed and the bonding of the electrical wasn't continued across a plastic water softener manifold b) The water heater has dielectric couplings to protect the (steel) tank from galvanic corrosion. The copper side should be bonded together (Hot and cold).
I get what you are saying. I just never thought it was completely safe to have part of your body in water and toucing some electrical appliance, whether it is on or off.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:41 PM   #21
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shocking range


Search on
"low voltage electrocution"

Apparently 25v is enough to off some very few people very infrequently in a country that may care less about its citizens than the U.S..
IIRC in the whole history of the US Navy the lowest fatal voltage was 47v.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 06-13-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:00 PM   #22
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It is the ampacity that kills, not the voltage.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:30 PM   #23
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It is the ampacity that kills, not the voltage.
Can someone help this gentleman?
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:01 PM   #24
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The path through the human body has some resistance, mostly at the skin if that is dry on the outside. At all times in any portion of an electrical circuit, volts measured between the start and end of that portion equals amperes times resistance of that portion, or amperes equals volts divided by resistance. If the voltage is not high enough for a fatal current flow to occur, the person isn't electrocuted yet.

In the case of a person experiencing electric shock, usually once a good amount of current (say 25 milliamperes) gets flowing, the characteristics of the precise path through the body and especially at the skin where the current enters and exits changes as a result of heating so as to lower the resistance. In turn the current increases.

The current causes burning of body tissue and parts as it passes through. When the current, from where it enters the body to where it exits, passes near or through the heart, the heartbeat becomes irregular or may stop completely.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 06-13-2012 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:08 PM   #25
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The path through
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The average homeowner who lost his house in the Oklahoma tornadoes should move for good and not rebuild. Too much complexity watchdogging the contractor. Too much a chance to be defrauded.

Last edited by AllanJ; 06-14-2012 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:17 PM   #26
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Can someone help this gentleman?
Sure, you are an idiot. Does that help?
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #27
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Sure, you are an idiot. Does that help?
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:22 PM   #28
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Can someone help this gentleman?
Originally Posted by Jim Port
It is the ampacity that kills, not the voltage.


Why do you think GFI's trip on current imbalance and not voltage?

Why do 240 volt GFIs trip at the same level as a 120 volt GFI? Doesn't sound like voltage.

What is the ampacity of a Taser shock? What is the voltage of the Taser?
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Last edited by Jim Port; 06-13-2012 at 07:53 PM. Reason: added Taser questions
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:34 PM   #29
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Amperage always concerned me more than voltage.

To me, voltage is a train that carries freight, amperage is the freight or load.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:35 PM   #30
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Does that help?
Time will tell. And, thank God or some other Supreme Being, I don't have a lot of it left.

There was a tech at one of the NASA facilities that behaved like this. He hounded the cr@p out of me.
The big boss probably knew that Federal Employees are entitled to a harassment-free workplace but he kept mum and I didn't know enough about employment law at that time.

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