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Old 06-12-2012, 06:58 PM   #1
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shocking range


My daughter was just telling me her husband was washing dishes or something, and for whatever reason he touched the electric range/stove. He got a good jolt that tinkled for some time!

Besides being a badly designed old kitchen in an old house, what do I need to look for? Grounding? This is the ole 2 wire with grnd 3 prong plug.

The power is coming from a breaker box.

He did have water running over his hand when he touched the stove.

Yeah, I know, bright idea.


Last edited by boman47k; 06-12-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:10 PM   #2
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shocking range


Does the stove have any timers, clocks or lights? If so there is a 110 circuit that is using the ground wire as a neutral. This ground is also connected to the stove chassis. It is posible that he became a better path to source than the ground wire.

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Old 06-12-2012, 07:11 PM   #3
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hi

yes you do have a grounding problem ! this mean your wirering must be 35 plus years old this would requier a electricien to change most wire in your house or at leas the 1 closse to water source ( kitchen bathroom ) you might want to test your house ground to !

how old is your house and wirering ?
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:19 PM   #4
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a typical '3 wire' stove outlet would not have a ground, but rather 2 hots and a neutral. This was disallowed with the 1996 NEC, due to the potential of neutral current on the chassis of the appliance, as is happening in your case.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:45 PM   #5
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shocking range


You have to be aware that this is not 'ol 2 wire with ground' This is two hots and a neutral wire. The stove has either 120v or 240v touching the case somewhere. Most likely 240v if he felt it good.

Replace the appliance or repair the wiring. The stove should not be used under any circumstances until it is repaired or replaced. A path for fault current(ground) should be added to avoid any shock hazards in the future.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:49 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Protocol. View Post
Most likely 240v if he felt it good.
With both hands wet it could be 60v or higher, or even possibly somewhat lower.

If it can light a bulb he was pretty lucky, this time. . .

Last edited by Yoyizit; 06-12-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:14 PM   #7
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Does the rest of the house work ok? Lights get bright or dim when other lights, TVs, hair dryers are turned on?

If the rest of the house is ok, and the stove is 3 wire, then almost certainly, the neutral/ground wire is loose or broken somewhere between the stove and the panel.

Even though the stove is 240, the most shock you can get is 120. This is because in order to get shocked by 240, you have to be touching one of the hot legs, then touch the other. About the only other way you can get blasted with 240 is if the neutral is open somewhere from the service to the utility transformer. If the loads are such that one of the hot legs is effectively grounded and you grab the other hot......240.

Rob
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:26 PM   #8
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shocking range


Quote:
Originally Posted by boman47k View Post
My daughter was just telling me her husband was washing dishes or something, and for whatever reason he touched the electric range/stove. He got a good jolt that tinkled for some time!

Besides being a badly designed old kitchen in an old house, what do I need to look for? Grounding? This is the ole 2 wire with grnd 3 prong plug.

The power is coming from a breaker box.

He did have water running over his hand when he touched the stove.

Yeah, I know, bright idea.
open neutral I'm betting.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by micromind View Post
Does the rest of the house work ok? Lights get bright or dim when other lights, TVs, hair dryers are turned on?

If the rest of the house is ok, and the stove is 3 wire, then almost certainly, the neutral/ground wire is loose or broken somewhere between the stove and the panel.

Even though the stove is 240, the most shock you can get is 120. This is because in order to get shocked by 240, you have to be touching one of the hot legs, then touch the other. About the only other way you can get blasted with 240 is if the neutral is open somewhere from the service to the utility transformer. If the loads are such that one of the hot legs is effectively grounded and you grab the other hot......240.

Rob
Sorry, yes you are correct. Cant get a shock @ 240 unless you're connected to both live conductors.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:01 PM   #10
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I will definitely check te neutral tomorrow. Last April a storm tore the meter and weather head off. I replaced it and the panel. I had to extend one circuit. I am thinking it was the stove circuit. And yes, it was inspected.

I wish, and I may yet, I had went ahead and changed the stove circuit to a 4 wire so I could seperate the neutral from the case.

As far as not getting 220 volts, what if an element is touching the stove? Even the surface eyes pull 220 if on high, right?
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:12 PM   #11
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Don't be concerned with the extent of shock, 120 vs. 240; any amount of voltage can kill if the Current is enough. Find the open neutral.

It is good to hear that you wired your stove correctly with the N/G connected to the case.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Techy View Post
a typical '3 wire' stove outlet would not have a ground, but rather 2 hots and a neutral. This was disallowed with the 1996 NEC, due to the potential of neutral current on the chassis of the appliance, as is happening in your case.
I did tell her things like this is why the code calls for the 4 wire rec's now in new work.

I have changed a few pigtails for this reason when I sold a stove and someone had the newer wiring in their house. That was a few years ago.

I still have 1 or 2 in my shop on the wall.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:56 PM   #13
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shocking range


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Originally Posted by trooperfrank View Post
hi

yes you do have a grounding problem ! this mean your wirering must be 35 plus years old this would requier a electricien to change most wire in your house or at leas the 1 closse to water source ( kitchen bathroom ) you might want to test your house ground to !

how old is your house and wirering ?
Not true, not relevant, and not helpful. Don't give advice if you're not up to speed.

You have a bonding problem, not grounding. The problem may be (likely is) a loose neutral connection somewhere in the range circuit. The metal chassis of the range is electrified because the clock/timer/lights use the neutral connection as their return, and the chassis is bonded to the neutral. Tighten the connection of the neutral wire in the panel and in the receptacle, and make sure the plug is making good contact in the receptacle.

This problem of the appliance becoming electrified in the event of a loose neutral connection is the reason why 3-wire feeds are no longer allowed for 120/240V appliances.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:48 AM   #14
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You may also want to check the bonding connection on the back of the range. It may be loose or missing.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:15 AM   #15
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You have a combination of two problems:

1. Due to manufacturing defect or wear from vibration or an earlier imperfect repair, a live wire inside has somehow come in contact with the metal framework of the stove,

2. The stove is not adequately grounded (bonded to ground).

Were the stove properly grounded, current from a fault (unwanted interconnection letting unwanted current flow) to the metal frame would "drain" back to the panel neutral, possibly tripping the breaker if the fault current were large enough, rather than endanger some person touching the stove. While the smallest common branch circuit breaker is 15 amps, it might take less than one tenth of an ampere to electrocute someone.

Numerous treatises have appeared on this web site about the necessary components (equipment grounding conductors, grounding electrode conductors, etc.) to adequately ground things.

It is not easy to find the exact location if problem #1 existed.

Among the places where loose connections can occur are all the screws and set screws in the breaker panel. Take a moment to tighten these up. Someone with lots of electrical experience should do the big set screws on the big lugs where the fat wires from the meter come in.

You can run a bare or green covered #10 copper wire from the stove framework down to the breaker panel ground terminal strip (bus bar), exactly, approximately, or vaguely following the route of the stove branch circuit cable, if the latter does not have a ground wire (EGC).

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Last edited by AllanJ; 06-13-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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