Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-04-2012, 09:00 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 46
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

Shed subpanel


Quote:
My question is in regards to the neutral. In the attached picture I have two red arrows pointing to what I believe are the neutral bus bars. They are both neutral, correct? My hesitation comes from the instructions where it says screw the provided bolt through a hole in the bottom silver bar joining the two neutral bars to bond the neutral and ground together. That makes me think that one bar might be ground and the other bar might be neutral, but I doubt it. I bought the specified ground bus bar kit and installed at the top of the box. Do you think this is the optimal place for it? Most of the runs will be coming in from the bottom of the panel (including the feeder cables). Putting the ground bus bar on either side doesn't make much sense to me because then circuits on the other side has to go all the way around the box.
It would be typical to have the main breaker as the breaker on top, meaning you have the panel upside down. I would try and place the ground bus on the side that you have the most circuits coming in. The red arrows do point to the neutral bus.

Depending on your code you may have to install the main breaker on top.

AltaSparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 01:34 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 146
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Shed subpanel


Shucks. I will look as I really wanted to install it with the main breaker on the bottom otherwise I'll be running conduit up and back down.

There was a snag with my #4 white wire. Supplier stated they'd get some and I'd be able to pick it up Wednesday if not Thursday. Friday is here and they still haven't received it so I've opted to get a second length of #4 black and some white phase tape to tape the ends. A bit disappointing but purely for personal preference. Will pick it all up tonight on the way home and get to work in the morning!
BrandonD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 07:38 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 146
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Shed subpanel


Update --

It went mostly well. I completely tore out my back by hand trenching the 115ft to the shed with a mattock. I've done a lot of strenuous work before but nothing like this. We have a lot of pines so there was root after root. My dad helped, I used the mattock to dig and he used an axe to break up the roots. We broke a few water pipes along the way. Unfortunately all but one had to be turned off at the well. When we hit the irrigation system feed it was between the well and valves so it had to be shut off at the main, cutting off the house. I don't like that. I will likely be installing two valves just right off the well so I can isolate each system. At any rate, we finished the trench on Saturday and managed to get the 1/2" conduit run for the new well service lines. I replaced everything where it leaves the house all the way to the outlet box and outlet. My 2nd shed was getting power from here and I cut it at that point. Also sunk a nice 4x4 into the ground to give the new outlet box some backing. Daylight was almost gone at this point so we called it a day.

Sunday my brother-in-law came out and we ran the 1" conduit for the subpanel feeders. The 1 and 1/2" hole required through the garage wall went well. It's a bit slanted but I think with some caulking it will hide most of that. We attached a piece of plastic bag to the end of the pull string and sucked it through with a shop vac -- that worked like a charm. Lubed it up and started pulling. We alternated between pulling and pushing. About half way there the pull string snapped, but came to find out it didn't break but rather came loose from the bundle. Since I didn't have any pull boxes in place we had to pull it all the way back out, which is harder than pulling it forward! The 2nd try went well for a while but the line truly snapped near the end. So near the end (judging by how I bought 150' of wire for a 115' run and only 20' was sticking out) that I refused to believe it wasn't right at the shed. We took a flashlight and looked down the conduit from within the shed and could barely make out the pull string. We cut off the conduit about 1' from the floor and was able to get to the pull string. Started up again and about one minute later we had wire.

My brother-in-law connected the other end to the main panel breaker and again daylight threatened so we called it a day. Since the subpanel wires aren't connected to anything he put a breaker lock on it and gave me the key so no accidental flipping of breakers until that's wired into the subpanel -- hopefully later this week.
BrandonD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 01:00 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,506
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Shed subpanel


The key to pulling wire is the person feeding the wire on the opposite end. This is your point man and can make a pull harder or in your case disastrous. Making the connection between the pulling loop and the wires (the head) is also very important. You are doing something wrong if you are breaking the connection between the loop and the wires!

Skin all four of the feeder wires about a foot or so long. Remove (cut) most all strands from each wire. Two or three strands is plenty. Now stagger the wires so the the insulation does not line up with each other. Slide the skinned wire end through the pulling loop and fold over. Do not allow the insulation in the fold. Squeeze these wires down and tape all the way over the wires and the pulling loop. DO NOT TWIST the wires. The (head) should be smaller in diameter than the feeder wires themselves. The tape will prevent the wires from coming loose.

Lay out the wires on the ground so they are perfectly straight! Never pull from a coil.
If you have pulled these wires back out like you said, you need to lay them out nice and straight before trying again.



Pour or squeeze a good bit a wire lube down into the first 90. The end where you are feeding the wire from. Once again the person feeding the wire must allow the wires to enter the conduit straight and not crooked or any over lapping. The person feeding, should hold the wires up and feed as if he was pouring the wire into the hole. He is the key. The person feeding should also lube the wire as he feeds it to the pulling end. Once the wires are moving nicely, the lube can be discontinued.

String is not a good choice for pulling. Especially if you do not know how to pull wire. Use rope. Use the string to pull in a small diameter rope. Then use the rope to pull the wire. Remember the most important person on a wire pull is the guy feeding the wire. It will go smoothly if you recognize this concept. The pulling end is the easy end if you are doing it right.
String works for experience wire pullers as they know what they are doing. If you are pulling hard enough to strain the string or rope, you are not doing it right. It should be easy to pull. Not hard.

One more thing. Communication between the pulling end and the feeding end is paramount. A whistle works good. 1 toot go / 2 toots stop, using that as an example.
If both ends are not working in unison, you might never get the wire through.
Remember. Its the guy feeding the wire that has all the control. Make sure he understands what to do.
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 02:10 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 146
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Shed subpanel


Thanks for the suggestions. I wasn't around when he was prepping the wires but I do know we did a lot of your suggestions. The wires were cut and staggered, lube down the LB fitting into the 90 and additional lube along the way, the wires were laid out straight (both times), and the person feeding always had a loop and fed straight down into the fitting. I think our communication is what failed the first time... I was the feeder and had to gather more length of wire in order to continue the loop into the fitting. I yelled but I don't think he heard (the shed is a ways down and a wall between us), and the next thing I heard was a clash and him cursing coming out. I wanted to run nylon rope the 2nd time just in case, even though the pull string didn't fail, but the rope I had was not long enough. I thought about doubling up on the pull string but we decided against it. Sure did luck out it breaking in the conduit coming up from the shed floor. Nothing a coupling can't handle.
BrandonD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 08:50 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Md/Pa
Posts: 1,060
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Shed subpanel


Quote:
Originally Posted by brandondavie View Post
Sure did luck out it breaking in the conduit coming up from the shed floor. Nothing a coupling can't handle.
A funny story about almost loosing the end of a 1/4" pull rope because of a curious bear. A couple of months ago I was about 700' into a 900' run (weekend project and pulling rope as I was adding conduit). When I went to take the plastic cover off of the sweep I noticed that it was already pulled off and there was about 20' of pull rope on the ground (visualize bored house pet and a toilet paper roll). I didn't think anything of it at the time but when I went to extend the conduit the end of my rope was no where in sight. Long story short, it was about 6' up into the conduit. Luckily, I was using a 12 gauge solid wire as a leader and I had bent a small loop in the end of it. I found some old barbed wire in the woods and was able to get it back out but it made for a stressful moment not knowing how far up inside the conduit the end was. After that fiasco I drilled a small hole in the end cap and ran the 12 gauge through the hole with a sharp bend when I was done for the weekend. There was a mess of rope on the ground for the following 3 weekends but I didn't loose the end anymore. Silly bears
zappa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 12:06 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 146
Rewards Points: 0
Default

Shed subpanel


Update: All done!

Mounted the panel, pounded the ground rods in, and ran the wire for the ground rods last week. Got everything wired in, felt pretty confident about it so I went and flipped the breaker in the main panel. All good from there... go and check the hots in the subpanel with my multimeter and got nothing. Nothing between either hot and the ground and nothing between both hots. I felt rather down at this point but did not want to go any further as I didn't feel like I knew enough to be safe doing anything more. I called my brother-in-law and he said he'd come out in a couple days to take a look but in the meantime double check my multimeter on a known hot circuit to verify it's working. I doubted this was the case because I had just used it in various other electrical tasks and even used it the night before on my dryer outlet. I gave it a shot anyway and found no reading on one of the receptacles in the house. Flabbergasted, I discovered my black lead was not fully pressed into the multimeter. Yikes! Went back out, flipped the subpanel breaker in the main panel on again, and got a nice 240V across both hots. Success! I'm glad I didn't start playing with the breaker or wires in the subpanel thinking they weren't hot!

First circuit for it is a proper 120V receptacle for my water softener. I wanted to get it done this weekend but I'm recovering from a terrible cold. Hopefully I'll get that done during this week after work.

BrandonD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
running subpanel supply along shed ridge beam amakarevic Electrical 7 07-09-2011 04:01 PM
Questions about subpanel in a new shed gmarena Electrical 6 03-19-2011 11:50 AM
running wire for 50A subpanel in a detached shed amakarevic Electrical 10 03-17-2011 05:04 PM
running wire to a detached shed subpanel amakarevic Electrical 9 03-27-2008 05:15 PM
Subpanel to Shed - Check my plan NateHanson Electrical 9 04-26-2007 09:56 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.