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Old 12-27-2008, 11:29 AM   #16
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shed power suggestions


here are some pics of the panel i need to go into, its the outside meter panel, there is an unused 40 and an unused 30 at the bottom, i suppose i'll have to replace one of these with a 20 going the route we are talking correct? also since the neutrals and grounds are bonded in this panel, so i will connect the white and ground from the 10/3 to the bus bar all the bare al goes to correct?

Ratt
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:39 AM   #17
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here are some pics of the panel i need to go into, its the outside meter panel, there is an unused 40 and an unused 30 at the bottom, i suppose i'll have to replace one of these with a 20 going the route we are talking correct? also since the neutrals and grounds are bonded in this panel, so i will connect the white and ground from the 10/3 to the bus bar all the bare al goes to correct?

Ratt
I hate these God**** meter sockets. I see them all over here in Northern Alabama. In the summer, I was replacing them left and right. Here's the skinny: you can only have at most 6 breakers of any type, single or double, in there. In other words, to turn off everything in your house or property, you must flip at most six handles.

If you put two single pole breakers in there, then you are full, regardless of the fact that you have two more spaces.

But, to answer your question, yes, the ground and neutral land on the same block.

p.s.: I hope you removed the lid for picture clarity, and that it does have one!
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Old 12-27-2008, 11:49 AM   #18
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I hate these God**** meter sockets. I see them all over here in Northern Alabama. In the summer, I was replacing them left and right. Here's the skinny: you can only have at most 6 breakers of any type, single or double, in there. In other words, to turn off everything in your house or property, you must flip at most six handles.

If you put two single pole breakers in there, then you are full, regardless of the fact that you have two more spaces.

But, to answer your question, yes, the ground and neutral land on the same block.

p.s.: I hope you removed the lid for picture clarity, and that it does have one!
i hate them also and i am not an electrician, this is the 2nd house i have lived in that the door hinges were broken on, i dont like this panel and when i buy the house i am gonna replace it or have it replaced. but later on as an electrician i talked to said min of 1k dollars to replace it because of the poco's involvement in the matter of having to wait on them to cut power to the house, while he is prepping everything else...

with this multiwire circuit i was planning on a double pole 20 for the shed, which would still leave the other space open for another double pole 20 multiwire for xmas lights next yr...

and yes i removed the cover for clarity.

Ratt
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:26 PM   #19
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I hate these God**** meter sockets. I see them all over here in Northern Alabama. In the summer, I was replacing them left and right. Here's the

Are the outdoor meter sockets / combo boxes bad in general or just this style?

skinny: you can only have at most 6 breakers of any type, single or double, in there. In other words, to turn off everything in your house or property, you must flip at most six handles.

Does this apply to just the first fused disconnect only? So if you have say a double pole single throw fused disconnect after you meter, and before anything else, then you meet the requirement and and can whatever other disconnects in the home, Correct?

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Old 12-27-2008, 01:03 PM   #20
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Are the outdoor meter sockets / combo boxes bad in general or just this style?
It wouldn't be so bad if there were a main in it. Then he could fill if up with 12 single poles if he liked.

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Does this apply to just the first fused disconnect only? So if you have say a double pole single throw fused disconnect after you meter, and before anything else, then you meet the requirement and and can whatever other disconnects in the home, Correct?
Yes. If you had a disconnect at the meter, then you could feed an infinite number of downstream overcurrent devices. And do it six times with six disconnects. If you look at large commercial buildings, like a strip mall, you may see only six meters. If there is anymore, you will see a large switch first that disconnects them all.
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:54 PM   #21
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It wouldn't be so bad if there were a main in it. Then he could fill if up with 12 single poles if he liked.
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Yes. If you had a disconnect at the meter, then you could feed an infinite number of downstream overcurrent devices. And do it six times with six disconnects. If you look at large commercial buildings, like a strip mall, you may see only six meters. If there is anymore, you will see a large switch first that disconnects them all.
for future reference can u suggest a meter socket/main disconnect/panel you would recommend for this when i go to replace it later on, i hate not having a main to isolate the whole box if needed/wanted.

Ratt
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Old 12-27-2008, 03:36 PM   #22
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C) The UF cable can be direct buried 18" deep by code.
Really? Is it under a driveway or parking area? I didn't see that mentioned. What am I missing?
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:10 PM   #23
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for future reference can u suggest a meter socket/main disconnect/panel you would recommend for this when i go to replace it later on, i hate not having a main to isolate the whole box if needed/wanted.

Ratt
Since you have all those circuits coming out there, you will need more than the average meter/main combo. Usually, the utility company will provide a meter socket at no charge. Square D and GE both make a spiffy outdoor panel with a main breaker available at the big box stores like Home Depot for just under $100. A utility provided meter socket nippled to one of these would be bang-up.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:16 PM   #24
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Really? Is it under a driveway or parking area? I didn't see that mentioned. What am I missing?
Petey's probably just used to installing PVC. The NEC defines 24" for UF.

For the record, I want to say that I don't believe, in my interpretation, that column 4 permits a multiwire circuit to be buried 12" deep even with GFCI protection. A multiwire circuit is, for all intents, a 120/240 V, not just 120. The inspector may see it differently, but not if he were me, and not the hardnosed a-holes I'm used to dealing with.
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:26 PM   #25
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Why not use the unused 30 amp and run 10/3 out to the shed?
Just my nickles worth!

Go Falcons!
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:46 PM   #26
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Why not use the unused 30 amp and run 10/3 out to the shed?
Just my nickles worth!

Go Falcons!
funny u say that i was just about to post about this, when i checked at lowes yesterday 12/3 is like 1.20 a foot, and 10/3 is 1.90 so the cost difffernce is almost double, i am looking at having to run around 130 feet, 1.20x130'=156 bucks (within my price range) or 1.90x130=247. so for a standard garden shed as future use, the 12/3 with a multiwire 20a is fine...

Ratt
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:00 PM   #27
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now that i figured out what i wanna use circuit wise, this is what i was gonna do, would like suggestions if this will be ok.

bring the multiwire into a 2 gang box just inside the door and put 2 20a switches there.

switch 1 will control one set of outlets 3-4 (tools) and 2 4' flouresent shoplights (2 additional plugs), the first outlet will be gfci and will serve as the gfci for all additional plugs on that circuit.

switch 2 will control another 4' shoplight (1 plug) in the loft area and 2-3 more plugs (tools), on this circuit i would like to have an unswitched line running to a motion light mounted above the door on the outside so when i walk up to the shed at night the light will come on automagically.

does this sound ok? anything i should be concerned with?

thanks
Ratt
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:00 PM   #28
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Just a heads up you have a major code violation on that meter main. The service entrance conductors can't share that same knockout with the other cables. And the knockout doesn't have a clamp for the service entrance cable to secure it to the enclosure.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:08 PM   #29
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Just a heads up you have a major code violation on that meter main. The service entrance conductors can't share that same knockout with the other cables. And the knockout doesn't have a clamp for the service entrance cable to secure it to the enclosure.
by service entrance conductors do you mean the supply from the poco? if so they enter the meter from the top, all those wires that leave that knockout are for sub panels or range/dryer.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:08 PM   #30
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Stubbie, I don't think that is the service cables. It looks to me to feed from the 90 amp breaker, and maybe feed a panel inside. The sevice comes into the meter on top.

I agree he needs a lock nut.
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