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Old 02-23-2009, 11:17 AM   #16
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


Appreciate the replies, I am going to summarize from the info you guys have provided to make certain i understand, please correct me if there is error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
Unless your just sleeving the romex through conduit...
Sleeving is taking out the conductors from the protective sleeve. Protective sleeve = sheath?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
You can sleeve it through conduit for physical protection, in this situation, fill doesn't apply.
Fill applies when NOT sleeving, when NM remains in protective sheath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
If the conduit were connecting 2 boxes or such, I do not believe it would be considered merely a protective sleeve and therefor not allowed under the protective sleeve situation. (seems to be the situation the OP is suggesting)
So using NM in conduit to connect 2 boxes (panels) is not allowed, since the conduit is not considered a protective sleeve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
If it is an actual connection from box to box, than fill does come to play.
So fill is accounted for when using NM in conduit connecting from box to box.
If i use Thhn then fill doesn't matter?

Conclusion: Running Thhn in conduit to connect two panels is allowed, whereas running NM in conduit is not allowed for the same purpose because the conduit would not be considered a protective sleeve.

So my last question is........can i run Thhn for multiple subs in the same conduit?

Thanks again!


Last edited by GoyimPersuasion; 02-23-2009 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:53 AM   #17
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoyimPersuasion View Post
Appreciate the replies, I am going to summarize from the info you guys have provided to make certain i understand, please correct me if there is error.



Sleeving is taking out the conductors from the protective sleeve. Protective sleeve = sheath?



Fill applies when NOT sleeving, when NM remains in protective sheath.



So using NM in conduit to connect 2 boxes (panels) is not allowed, since the conduit is not considered a protective sleeve.



So fill is accounted for when using NM in conduit connecting from box to box.
If i use Thhn then fill doesn't matter?

Conclusion: Running Thhn in conduit to connect two panels is allowed, whereas running NM in conduit is not allowed for the same purpose because the conduit would not be considered a protective sleeve.

So my last question is........can i run Thhn for multiple subs in the same conduit?

Thanks again!
You can not run Romex style cable ANYWHERE without it's jacket. Plain and simple it's jacket can only be removed in a junction box or a panel. If you sleeve romex in conduit, it MUST have it's jacket on.

My opinion, and likely code (but I'm not positive) Don't run romex and thhn in the same conduit.

Yes, you can run multiple feeders of THHN in one conduit, but you may have to derate.

Please tell me the distance and intended amps of each panel.

Jamie
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:33 PM   #18
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
My opinion, and likely code (but I'm not positive) Don't run romex and thhn in the same conduit.
Is this because NM's sheath has a lower rating at 60C? (As pointed out by a previous post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Yes, you can run multiple feeders of THHN in one conduit, but you may have to derate.
Max amp usage at each panel is 40 continuous load and was planning on using 6awg. With Thhn i understand the operating temperature is 90C @ 75Amps. In sharing conduit, is 6awg sufficient or must i derate, therefore requiring a larger diameter?

Do you comprehend the previous posts?....haha, because it was like forensics for me.

Last edited by GoyimPersuasion; 02-23-2009 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:26 PM   #19
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoyimPersuasion View Post
Is this because NM's sheath has a lower rating at 60C? (As pointed out by a previous post)



Max amp usage at each panel is 40 continuous load and was planning on using 6awg. With Thhn i understand the operating temperature is 90C @ 75Amps. In sharing conduit, is 6awg sufficient or must i derate, therefore requiring a larger diameter?

Do you comprehend the previous posts?....haha, because it was like forensics for me.
Got a bit confused on the other post... I don't know if there is a technical reason for not putting romex in a conduit with thhn, I bet there is, but I don't know it. But I know a big reason not to do it... Romex is a PIA to get in conduit. I mean a Real PIA. Unless your going to grossly oversize the conduit romex is a PIA to put in conduit. Don't do it, You will Thank me Later... :-) I had to remove about 60' of 12 gage romex from 3/4 condit that was shoved in there with 3 pieces of 12 gage thhn. Took me hours of fighting.

40A, 8 gage is fine. Don't worry about the temp ratings to much, your fine with 8awg in conduit for 40A. 6awg for 60A, with a 10awg ground.

Are either of these runs going outside or are these both inside the house? Was one going in an attached garage?

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Old 02-23-2009, 08:31 PM   #20
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


Quote:
Sleeving is taking out the conductors from the protective sleeve. Protective sleeve = sheath?
No. as jamie said, you cannot remove the outer sheath of NM unless it is where you would be making terminations.

a protective nipple would be something such as, the is running in an area that requires the NM be protected against damage. In those situations, you can run it inside (with outer sheath) in disjointed sections of conduit to protect it.



Quote:
Fill applies when NOT sleeving, when NM remains in protective sheath.
fill always applies when in conduit except for nipples of 24" or less.


Quote:
So using NM in conduit to connect 2 boxes (panels) is not allowed, since the conduit is not considered a protective sleeve.
I believe so. Like I said, and I was hoping one of the guys that do resi work would confirm or rebut, NM cannot be run in conduit anymore.



Quote:
So fill is accounted for when using NM in conduit connecting from box to box.
If i use Thhn then fill doesn't matter?
fill always matters except when running through a nipple less than 24".

Quote:
Conclusion: Running Thhn in conduit to connect two panels is allowed, whereas running NM in conduit is not allowed for the same purpose because the conduit would not be considered a protective sleeve.
sort of. the NM is not allowed because code says it isn;t allowed to be installed like that.

Quote:
So my last question is........can i run Thhn for multiple subs in the same conduit?
Yes. Just be cautious of conduit fill and derating.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:16 PM   #21
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
fill always applies when in conduit except for nipples of 24" or less.
24" Fill:
(4) Where conduit or tubing nipples having a maximum
length not to exceed 600 nun (24 in.) are installed be-
tween boxes, cabinets, and similar enclosures, the
nipples shall be permitted to be filled to 60 percent of
their total cross-sectional area
, and 310.15(B)(2)(a) ad-
justment factors need not apply to this condition.

24" Derating:
Exception No.3: Derating factors shall not apply to con-
ductors in nipples having a length not exceeding 600 mm
(24 in.).



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Old 02-23-2009, 11:06 PM   #22
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


I stand corrected.

actually, I'm sitting but I'm sure you get the point.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:32 PM   #23
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Sharing conduit (respect to code)


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
I stand corrected.

actually, I'm sitting but I'm sure you get the point.
Some people really love their Romex.

I wish everything was in conduit of some kind.

Jamie

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