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Old 04-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #31
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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Originally Posted by skipoff View Post
I am creating a mother inlaw.
I dont recommend this.... nothing good will come of it.

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Old 04-20-2013, 12:12 PM   #32
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


I've run a lot of conduit over the years, but I've never shared neutrals or just let the conduit act as a ground wire substitute, I've always run separate wires for each circuit and breaker, as well as a green ground wire positively connected to each box with a screw. I never trusted the relatively flimsy connections between the emt pipes, couplers and boxes to be 100% perfect 100% of the time, thus I always used a green wire screwed to each box and connected to the green wire of any fixture there.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:14 PM   #33
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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I've run a lot of conduit over the years, but I've never shared neutrals or just let the conduit act as a ground wire substitute, I've always run separate wires for each circuit and breaker, as well as a green ground wire positively connected to each box with a screw. I never trusted the relatively flimsy connections between the emt pipes, couplers and boxes to be 100% perfect 100% of the time, thus I always used a green wire screwed to each box and connected to the green wire of any fixture there.
He's using plastic conduit... just saying.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:16 PM   #34
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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I never trusted the relatively flimsy connections between the emt pipes, couplers and boxes to be 100% perfect 100% of the time, thus I always used a green wire screwed to each box and connected to the green wire of any fixture there.
Funny, because I never really trusted someone to install a green wire to a screw to be 100% perfect, 100% of the time...
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:49 PM   #35
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


There are studies that say using EMT as the fault path is a better alternative to pulling an EGC. I'll be dammed if I can find them tho.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:57 PM   #36
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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wow guys ...you might know alot about eletrical but your communications skills need work. I understood what he was talking about in the very first thread. You made it very complicating...he said nothing about 240 volt. Reread his first post and quit being so arragant. He wants to create two outlets on two seperate breakers and he wants to know if he can share the neuteral (white wire....sorry for being a smart ass). This site is to HELP with DIY not make them feel stupid.
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Ok, lets see if i can gets a POLITE answer about my question.
Welcome to the forum. I'm sure you'll do quite well with an opening like this.

And I agree. You should have started a new thread.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:59 PM   #37
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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There are studies that say using EMT as the fault path is a better alternative to pulling an EGC. I'll be dammed if I can find them tho.
Georgia Institute of Technology did these tests I believe.
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Old 04-20-2013, 03:23 PM   #38
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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Ok, lets see if i can gets a POLITE answer about my question. I am creating a mother inlaw. 50 ft run in 1" plastic conduit. stove and microwave. stove on 50 amp breaker microwave on 20 amp breaker. stove hase 4-8 gauge wires 2 hot/1 neuteral/1ground. microwave using 12 gauge. Question is....can I use the 8 gauge neuteral and ground form the stove to share with the microwave? Now that is as plain and simple of a question as i can possible make it. Thanks and please dont be rude....
You take an old thread and tell everyone they were rude and then ask for help on your project. Now that's not only rude but stupid. And you can't fix stupid.

Wire it with lamp cord, it will be fine.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #39
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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Funny, because I never really trusted someone to install a green wire to a screw to be 100% perfect, 100% of the time...
That's why you do things yourself so you know how they are done, when you rely on a 2nd party to do your work for you they cut corners, sluff off or get lazy.
This can be said of wire nutting too, they can come loose, corrosion/oxidation can happen.

With the separate green grounding wire, the metal conduit still acts in the capacity of a redundent ground were something to go wrong, or some fool forgets to connect the breaker box end of that wire and it's just left danging in the box.

You can still get a small water leak over a box that causes the grounding screw to begin corroding, just as latex paint slopped over the conduit and boxes can get a little corrosion started right where the coupler screws clamp down on the metal conduit, but having both is not a negative.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:18 PM   #40
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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There are studies that say using EMT as the fault path is a better alternative to pulling an EGC. I'll be dammed if I can find them tho.
Well if you find them be sure to post a link, but I'll say this much, having the green ground wire in metal conduit is an additional safety, not the sole one as the conduit alone would be. The conduit's reliance on each coupler screw being tight, making a good contact, and actually clamped down on the tube. If any coupler screw happens to come loose over time, vibration, corrosion form latex paint damages it etc then the whole run of conduit could become hot if there was a fault.
That's one reason why I like the additional green wire inside, attached to every box, fixture and appliance.
The cost to add the green wire is for just one wire, it takes as much time/work to pull 3 wires through 50' of conduit as it does 2 wires.

I would never use plastic conduit...

Last edited by RWolff; 04-20-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #41
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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Originally Posted by RWolff View Post
Well if you find them be sure to post a link, but I'll say this much, having the green ground wire in metal conduit is an additional safety, not the sole one as the conduit alone would be. The conduit's reliance on each coupler screw being tight, making a good contact, and actually clamped down on the tube.
The cost to add the green wire is for just one wire.

I would never use plastic conduit...
If you were bidding a 2000amp feeder, I highly doubt you would pay for EGC within the metal raceway with your own money.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:28 PM   #42
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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There are studies that say using EMT as the fault path is a better alternative to pulling an EGC. I'll be dammed if I can find them tho.

You might mean this one:

http://www.steelconduit.org/pdf/groundingpart1.PDF

Quote:
For a phase to conduit fault, the fault current will return to the source through the conduit and facility ground. It is possible that for a phase to conduit fault the
only return path for the fault current is the conduit. This is possible for the systems illustrated
in Figures 2.1a, 2.1c, and 2.1d. For a single phase to neutral conductor fault, the fault current
return path is through the neutral conductor; the neutral conductor may have a higher
impedance than the previously noted fault current paths. Therefore, the type of fault becomes
the limiting factor. This report is focused on the performance of steel conduit as the
equipment grounding conductor so we used the situation where the only fault path is the steel
conduit, as the worst case condition
As you said, this agrees with the conduit acting as the fault grounding and a separate conductor is not necessary:
Quote:
Where l engths do not exceed the maximum allowable computed by the method,
supplemental grounding conductors in secondary power systems enclosed in steel
EMT, IMC or RIGID conduit are not necessary.


However, the additonal green wire IS required by the NEC under certain installations per this:

Quote:
The supplemental conductor is sometimes required by the NEC in critical installations such as health care areas, where dual protection for patients is considered prudent.
All of which when boiled down essentially says the conduit is acceptable just as you said, but adding the green wire simply exceeds the requirements for normal installations, and in certain circumstances it is required.
Obviously for accent lights in an art gallery it's hardly critical patient care in a hospital type of situation and the green wire is not necessary or required, but it's there and I feel better about it being there and that's what counts




Last edited by RWolff; 04-20-2013 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:31 PM   #43
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


Ok, this is 2 years old, but at least I'm not the first to comment since then

so I'll bite.....

why would you not use PVC conduit?
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:32 PM   #44
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


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Ok, this is 2 years old, but at least I'm not the first to comment since then

so I'll bite.....

why would you not use PVC conduit?
many reasons, PVC simply not allowed, other conduit spec'd out on the prints, etc..
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:34 PM   #45
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Shared neutral on more than one circuit


He made it sound like a personal choice.

If it's against code, then so-be-it...if it's spec'ed out as EMT, then ok. Just thought maybe he had reasons other than "forced" reasons.

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