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Old 05-22-2013, 08:55 AM   #1
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


Is there any specific way that breakers are supposed to be listed in the breaker panel?
We are nearly to the point of setting up the breaker panel. Right now it contains the main 200Amp. There are plenty of open spots, and i need to install:
- 3 double 15Amp breakers with 14/2 wires attached (lights)
- 3 double 20Amp breakers with 12/2 wires attached (receptacles)
- 1 single 20Amp breaker with 12/2 wire attached (Receptacle)
- 1 single 50Amp breaker with 6/3 wire attached (Stove)
- 2 single 30Amp breakers with 10/3 wire attached (Dryer and Water Heater)

Do they have to be installed in a certain order, or can they just be put wherever they can fit?

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:14 AM   #2
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


There is no specific order the breaker need to be installed.

Why are you using 2 pole breakers for some of your lights and receptacles?

Does your area require AFCI protection? If so there is only one brand of two pole AFCI that I have heard about. It may not fit in your panel.

The water heater and dryer breaker should be 2 poles, not two singles handle tied together.

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Last edited by Jim Port; 05-22-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:22 AM   #3
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


i was trying to save room in the panel box for future electrical updates. My book i used to do electrical says that you have to put the water heater and dryer on their own dedicated circuits, using 10/3 wire and a 30amp breaker. I havent actually bought them yet, i plan to do that this weekend. i can get double pole breakers for the 30 amps as well, but i wanted to use double breakers for lights and receptacles because they would be more compact in the box.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:26 AM   #4
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


Double pole breakers are differnt than tandems. Tandems are two single poles in one case. Not all panels can accept tandems. Nor can you get AFCI protection in a tandem format.

Tandems are also more than 2x the cost of a single pole.

A water heater only requires 10-2, not 10-3. 10-3 would have a black, a red, a white and a ground.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:36 AM   #5
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


My panel is capable of accepting tandems. And i am not concerned with having AFCI breakers, i know they are supposedly "code" but i dont have to have them, since i wont have to have an inspection. I can get by with normal breakers. The only "special" things i have to do is GFCI receptacles, which i did put in the kitchen and bathroom.
About the water heater, im honestly confused. Everyone i talk to says it needs a different wire, some says it has to plug in and some say its hardwired. Ive never owned one that i bothered to examine so i am just kinda playing that by ear for now because everytime i talk to anyone about it,i get a conflicting answer.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:38 AM   #6
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


Search google images for "tandem breakers" then "double pole breakers" and it may help you understand the difference.

Tandem breakers are used to save space, usually they will have regular receptacle and lighting circuits on them. But, like Jim port said, many panels don't accept them, and they don't (as far as I know) make tandem AFCIs.

Double pole breakers take up two breaker spaces, and have a handle-tie. They are used for 240 volt loads, such as dryer, oven, cooktop, water heater, well pump, etc.

EDIT: I just read your last post, where you say your panel accepts tandems.

Last edited by Kyle_in_rure; 05-22-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:43 AM   #7
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


Whether you are getting this inspected or not I would not ignore the requirements in the code.

Your water heater will be hardwired.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:50 AM   #8
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


thanks. Kyle, i am aware of the difference, i just didnt know the term for the tandem breakers. The original panel had a couple of both types in it.
im getting whatever breakers match the hookups on the ones i pulled out of it, just different sizes since they had everything but the stove on 15 amp breakers. How the hell that passed inspection, ill never know. Besides, doing AFCI for the bedrooms mean i would have to buy two of them for the lights and three for the receptacles, because they are ran seperately. I would rather buy the tandem breakers and save space, and they realy dont cost that much more. Normal breakers are $7 each, tandem breakers are $9 each
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:54 AM   #9
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I just noticed your username, and I assume this is for the mobile home remodel you are doing? Do you have one of those special mobile home water heaters? Or just a regular one?
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:05 AM   #10
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


Regular one. the mobile home ones are made tall and skinny to fit in those narrow outdoor-access closets, and my heater will be taking up residence inside a 3'x3' closet inside the home with indoor access. Its an extra closet and it works better than in the master bedroom where it was to begin with. Plus it has a lockable, easy access door to repair it if need be. The best part is, the breaker panel isnt hanging in the same space with it!
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:20 AM   #11
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerParadise
Regular one. the mobile home ones are made tall and skinny to fit in those narrow outdoor-access closets, and my heater will be taking up residence inside a 3'x3' closet inside the home with indoor access. Its an extra closet and it works better than in the master bedroom where it was to begin with. Plus it has a lockable, easy access door to repair it if need be. The best part is, the breaker panel isnt hanging in the same space with it!
I remember that photo . Anyway, you will most likely need 10/2 for the water heater, and hard wiring is easier.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #12
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


You need a service disconnect for the water heater.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #13
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


what do you mean by that? Its on its own circuit with its own breaker and each water supply line will have its own shutoff valve. Isnt that enough protection?
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:44 AM   #14
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


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Originally Posted by TrailerParadise View Post
what do you mean by that? Its on its own circuit with its own breaker and each water supply line will have its own shutoff valve. Isnt that enough protection?
Unless the panel is in sight of the water heater, it needs a disconnect.

Also, on the tandem breakers, each will require a 12 or 14/2 and not a single cable for both breakers.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:49 AM   #15
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Setting up breaker panel - have a question


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerParadise View Post
Is there any specific way that breakers are supposed to be listed in the breaker panel?
We are nearly to the point of setting up the breaker panel. Right now it contains the main 200Amp. There are plenty of open spots, and i need to install:
- 3 double 15Amp breakers with 14/2 wires attached (lights)
- 3 double 20Amp breakers with 12/2 wires attached (receptacles)
- 1 single 20Amp breaker with 12/2 wire attached (Receptacle)
- 1 single 50Amp breaker with 6/3 wire attached (Stove)
- 2 single 30Amp breakers with 10/3 wire attached (Dryer and Water Heater)

Do they have to be installed in a certain order, or can they just be put wherever they can fit?
If those are MWBCs, you'll need 14/3 and 12/3. The ground can't substitute for the neutral.

EDIT: You're using tandems, so forget it, just finished reading, LOL...that'll teach me to jump the gun. I'll leave it for reference anyway I guess.

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