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Old 04-25-2011, 03:20 PM   #1
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Service Upgrade


Existing service is 60 amp. We want to upgrade to 200 amp overhead service. What's involved at the meter base?
  • Would the meter itself need to be replaced by the POCO?
  • New Meter Base: Looking at Square D 200 amp Residential Ringless Meter Socket Model # 62765, sold at Home Depot; what's the difference between "ringless" and "ring"? Will this work? The info on this is that it's a Single Phase, 3-wire. Will a 3-wire service be code compliant, or do we need 4-wire? (Based on 2005 Code)
  • What guage for the Service to the Weatherhead?
Any thing else that I've overlooked?



Thanks

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Old 04-25-2011, 04:18 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
Existing service is 60 amp. We want to upgrade to 200 amp overhead service. What's involved at the meter base?
  • Would the meter itself need to be replaced by the POCO? Yes
  • New Meter Base: Looking at Square D 200 amp Residential Ringless Meter Socket Model # 62765, sold at Home Depot;
  • Check with Utility. At my place the utility furnishes the meter socket
  • what's the difference between "ringless" and "ring"? Will this work? The info on this is that it's a Single Phase, 3-wire. Will a 3-wire service be code compliant, or do we need 4-wire? (Based on 2005 Code)3 wire. the 4 wire rule comes after the main disconnect.
  • What guage for the Service to the Weatherhead?
Go to the big box store and ask for 4/0 AL se cable 200 amps
see attachment Service Upgrade-table-310.jpg


Last edited by wareagle; 04-25-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:20 PM   #3
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double post

Last edited by wareagle; 04-25-2011 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:27 PM   #4
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The meter itself only needs to be replaced if it is an old "A-frame" type. Do not worry about this. The POCO will do this at their disgression.

Very few places any more provide the meter pan. Most also require a ringless type.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
Any thing else that I've overlooked
First things first: File a permit/application with your POCO.

Service entrance into the house to the panel.
Panel replacement.
Move all circuits into new panel.
Grounding electrodes and conductors.
Water bond/electrode and conductor.
Reconnect by POCO.


What is your level of expertise? From the sound of your questions this is not something you have any experience with. A service upgrade/replacement is not something for the completely inexperienced IMO.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
The meter itself only needs to be replaced if it is an old "A-frame" type. Do not worry about this. The POCO will do this at their disgression.

Very few places any more provide the meter pan. Most also require a ringless type.


First things first: File a permit/application with your POCO.

Service entrance into the house to the panel.
Panel replacement.
Move all circuits into new panel.
Grounding electrodes and conductors.
Water bond/electrode and conductor.
Reconnect by POCO.


What is your level of expertise? From the sound of your questions this is not something you have any experience with. A service upgrade/replacement is not something for the completely inexperienced IMO.
Thanks to both of you for the replies.

My exp. will let me do this. Although I've never replaced the meter base and up to the POCO feed, I'm comfortable working with live feed. I wanted to be sure that I'm getting the correct supplies for this job that I haven't yet experienced.

The SE Panel is existing. It was wired (rather miswired) by the homeowners who did not update the meter base, or the Service Entrance wires from the service drop. It's a 200 amp panel, with a 100 amp main breaker and 60-amp service entrance cables. Although I don't think he has exceeded the 60-amp service, it's getting real close, and has to be fixed immediately.

The homeowner has gotten the permit, and I will be there to supervise, and help w/ the R&R to the service drop.

I do need more info about the "[w]ater bond/electrode and conductor" you mention. Is a bond between the water pipe and panel and/or meter required?
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
Although I've never replaced the meter base and up to the POCO feed, I'm comfortable working with live feed
You should NOT be working hot!



Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
The SE Panel is existing. It was wired (rather miswired) by the homeowners who did not update the meter base, or the Service Entrance wires from the service drop. It's a 200 amp panel, with a 100 amp main breaker and 60-amp service entrance cables. Although I don't think he has exceeded the 60-amp service, it's getting real close, and has to be fixed immediately.

The homeowner has gotten the permit, and I will be there to supervise, and help w/ the R&R to the service drop.
Am I to understand you are doing this job for a customer? I had the impression that you WERE the homeowner.
I'm sorry, anyone who has to come to a DIY message board to ask very basic service upgrade questions such as these has NO PLACE doing a job like this for pay, let alone supervise someone else!!
It amazes me how some folks can be so casual about working outside of their area of expertise.
This is just my professional opinion.



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I do need more info about the "[w]ater bond/electrode and conductor" you mention. Is a bond between the water pipe and panel and/or meter required?
Yes it is.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:59 PM   #7
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Speedy,

Calm down a bit. I never said this was for pay. I'm assisting a friend who is intent on doing it himself.

All I'm asking is code related questions. Yes, I did ask about supplies, but only because I've never replaced outside overhead equipment.

As to not working HOT, how else will we attach to the drop? Well, I guess he could get the POCO to shut off the power from the pole!?
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:02 PM   #8
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POCO should make the connection to the drop, after you pass inspection.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
Speedy,

Calm down a bit. I never said this was for pay.
Oh, I'm calm. I simply stated an opinion.



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I'm assisting a friend who is intent on doing it himself.
That is no less scary.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Oh, I'm calm. I simply stated an opinion.



That is no less scary.
OK, I get the drift. Obviously, I'm not able to prove (via the internet) that I can do this job, but I have been doing my own work for many years, and quite safely, and ALWAYS per Code, when I can determine it.

So, if POCO will make the Disconnect & Reconnect, this is all the better for everyone.

Would you tell me whether I will need a 3 or 4-wire service for the meter I posted in OP? I'm visualizing a 2 Ungrounded Conductors (for the 240), 1 Grounded Conductor (neutral) and 1 Grounding Conductor, equalling 4-wires. But I see that some (if not most) of the services I see are only 3-wire (2 Hots and a Neutral/Ground).

Obviously, I want to do this safely, since I'm asking here, so I appreciate the comments.

I suppose I'll be using the 2/0 Copper USE-2 Cable, rated for 194F. Is this acceptable, given that 2/0 Copper is rated at 195-amp?
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:43 PM   #11
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POCO does not supply a ground, you only need 3 wires in the riser/mast, some POCO's do not allow grounding in the meterbase either, that will determine whether you need 3 or 4 wires from meter to loadcenter
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:01 AM   #12
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You only neeed 3 wire for the service. The bonding conductor for the water pipes will need to be larger.
The POCO will usually need to be notified, since the seal will be broken on the meter. A permit needs to puleed, which you say the homeowner has done.
In many areas only a licensed electrician is allowed to disconnect and reconnect a service. Do not know where you are located.
Also in some areas if a homeowner pulls a permit, but somebody else does the work, it become a criminal act, by filing an false application.
If someone has never done a service drop replacement, than supervising a homeowner is not the place to do it the first time.

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