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Old 02-05-2014, 01:50 AM   #16
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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...Nothing will change at the old panel...

Not quite. The existing panel would need to have the neutral and ground wires separated, since it would no longer be a service panel. If not present, separate grounding bars would need to be installed.

Not a large task, but a necessary modification.

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Old 02-05-2014, 07:31 AM   #17
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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you would install new 200 amp service equipment with feed thru lugs and run a 4 wire feeder to the old service equipment from the new.
Wouldn't be against the rule of minimum amount of unfused feeder inside the house? There would need to be a disconnect at the meter first.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:05 AM   #18
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Not quite. The existing panel would need to have the neutral and ground wires separated, since it would no longer be a service panel. If not present, separate grounding bars would need to be installed.

Not a large task, but a necessary modification.
As I said in post #6, you would have to rewire any 120/240 volt 3 wire circuits to 4 wire. Noteably range and dryer circuits. Could be a very big job.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:58 AM   #19
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Service Panel Second In Line?


This is getting off the rails a bit now, but to address a few points.

"Hmm, don't know how I could have been more clear - stating the meter would be second in line."

"You didn't state that until after Joe made his reply"

Really? The title of my post was " Service Panel Second In Line?"



And, in my very first question, I asked:


"This would make it second in line.

OR - would she need to move the main lines?"


Again - not sure how much more clear I could have been.



So, your response: "Probably the most common configuration in your moms situation is a meter relocation,"


Is exactly what I was looking for. The question I brought to the forum was in an effort to find the easiest / least costly way for my mother to remodel. My step father is 84, was 40 years a union finish carpenter, and has his own ideas. Moving the meter isn't in his play book and they were talking about framing (carpenter...) in some sort of breeze access way for the power company instead of moving the box.



The splice / junction box question was the natural evolution of the question, and my thought process - looking for solutions to a problem - without moving the supply. A junction would put the meter first in line (only when considering breaker-ed panels). Again, I hadn't considered rules based upon theft.



I misjudged you stubbie, and I already apologized. I suppose I did deserve the shipping container dig... Glad you checked up on me though. And - the container house is quite nice! And very efficient. My largest heating or cooling bill to date has be $89. For an all electric house In south FL - that's pretty darn good.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:31 AM   #20
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Not quite. The existing panel would need to have the neutral and ground wires separated, since it would no longer be a service panel. If not present, separate grounding bars would need to be installed.

Not a large task, but a necessary modification.
Correct but that was going into more detail than I wanted at this time. I did mention changing to a 4 wire feed from new panel ....
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:35 AM   #21
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Service Panel Second In Line?


Can you post a sketch showing the existing and proposed addition? Seems to me the existing meter location will end up in the new part of the building. You cannot just extend the service cable to a new location outside the building.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:39 AM   #22
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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Wouldn't be against the rule of minimum amount of unfused feeder inside the house? There would need to be a disconnect at the meter first.
I am assuming that the new service panel would be the disconnect just after the meter outside/inside and the old would have a 200 amp main breaker as I understand things. You would have a feeder between the two not unfused service lines. Service lines would have to be changed to be outside the house to the new SE. There is a lot to consider
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:08 AM   #23
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Service Panel Second In Line?


Quote:
I misjudged you stubbie, and I already apologized. I suppose I did deserve the shipping container dig... Glad you checked up on me though. And - the container house is quite nice! And very efficient. My largest heating or cooling bill to date has be $89. For an all electric house In south FL - that's pretty darn good
.

No problem. I'll try to explain the unclear thing as it was confusing to me also. When you say the new service panel will be second in line that implies that it will come after the meter. The meter is not the service equipment in your situation at your moms unless it is like your home in florida.. If you had said meter second in line no one would have questioned or been confused and would have simply said 'no' you can't do that. At your home in Florida you have what is called combination equipment and the meter is part of the enclosure so they go together if moved. But you still would have to reroute the service to the new SE location.

Now eventually all of us here will get on the same page and things should go more smoothly.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:40 AM   #24
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
I am assuming that the new service panel would be the disconnect just after the meter outside/inside and the old would have a 200 amp main breaker as I understand things. You would have a feeder between the two not unfused service lines. Service lines would have to be changed to be outside the house to the new SE. There is a lot to consider
A breakered feeder between them would fine but I thought a read 'feed though lugs'. Doesn't that mean no breaker as in line from meter to lug and from same lug to next panel?
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:46 AM   #25
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Service Panel Second In Line?


The SE would have a 200 amp main or the SE could be a remote disconnect as shown below. Service entrance would terminate on it. Then lugs are located at the bottom of the panel to attach a feeder to feed another panel. Your feeder would have to be rated for 200 amps.

The pdf after the image has a good example as you scroll thru it to page 6.



http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techartic...01loadctrs.PDF
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:28 PM   #26
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Service Panel Second In Line?


I get it now. Thanks
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:55 AM   #27
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Service Panel Second In Line?


FYI -- Meter/mains where the meter box also has a built-in breaker, 8 circuits, and feed-thru lugs are commonly used in Florida.

Using such a box makes any other panel "downstream" a sub-panel.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:28 AM   #28
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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FYI -- Meter/mains where the meter box also has a built-in breaker, 8 circuits, and feed-thru lugs are commonly used in Florida.

Using such a box makes any other panel "downstream" a sub-panel.
I wasn't sure about FL but that is very common here in Ks. that would be an excellent way to go.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:08 AM   #29
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Service Panel Second In Line?


Well, at least it looks like I got something interesting going. I thought service panel meant meter? And breaker box was non metered? Like most of life's problems, usually comes down to semantics and in this case looks like I was mistaken.

And, yes, we have feed through lugs here in our service - I mean meter box. But, as I understand it, its all moot as bottom line is nothing can come before the meter box - because of possibility of power theft. Correct?

Attached is a brief visual. Mom just closed on the place this AM and I haven't gotten any details yet. These were taken from Zillow. It will be a month or two before we start the addition - I'll give you all an update then.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:37 AM   #30
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Service Panel Second In Line?


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Well, at least it looks like I got something interesting going. I thought service panel meant meter? And breaker box was non metered? Like most of life's problems, usually comes down to semantics and in this case looks like I was mistaken.

And, yes, we have feed through lugs here in our service - I mean meter box. But, as I understand it, its all moot as bottom line is nothing can come before the meter box - because of possibility of power theft. Correct?

Attached is a brief visual. Mom just closed on the place this AM and I haven't gotten any details yet. These were taken from Zillow. It will be a month or two before we start the addition - I'll give you all an update then.
Correct, the Service Panel is where your breakers are located.

You can have a MAIN SP, a Subpanel, a Disconnect after the Meter that serves as the MAIN SP. All depends on the situation.

The METER is usually between the Weatherhead (if overhead wiring) and the MAIN SP.

Hope that helps.

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