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-   -   Seeking advice for wiring in hot-tub. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/seeking-advice-wiring-hot-tub-40960/)

YerDugliness 03-23-2009 07:19 PM

Seeking advice for wiring in hot-tub.
 
Good day, ladies and gents. I'm asking for advice regarding my future electrical endeavors towards installing a hot-tub on a deck outside my house. Right now there is nothing there but dry dirt and buffalo grass, but I have the walls on the back porch "open" right now, due to a recent electrical service upgrade, and want to wire in a circuit from the 200 amp/40 breaker service box to a "cutoff" outside, hopefully a specific hot-tub "box". This project is in a small, SW Kansas town, no codes, no inspectors, therefore nothing to give me any guidance.

So, I have the wiring to essentially the entire house exposed and it makes sense to get the circuit wired in before the plywood/paneling goes back on. I asked at my local Home Depot and they said 240V/50A is the recommended standard, but I'm not sure about the next bit of advice they gave me. They said I could get by with standard 8-2 with ground.

I guess I'm confused, I thought if I might be dealing with circuitry that would be in anything other than a dry location, I would need three wire with ground wiring of the appropraite gauge.

Am I just confused :huh: or would standard 8 gauge, 2 wire with ground be adequate?

Just FYI, this house recently underwent an upgrade from 100 amp overhead service to 200 amp underground service, all professionally installed. The service panel is a Home Depot consumer grade unit and there is plenty of room for expansion.

My main concern is avoiding any installation that might not be adequate for future upgrades. I'd hate to install 8-2 w/g and then need 8-3 w/g the first time I had to have it serviced......I have no interest in taking the cheapest way out, I've already invested too much $$ and time to take shortcuts or jeopardize the project at this stage, but neither do I want to splurge for 8-3 w/g if 8-2 w/g is the recommended standard.

While I'm at it, I'd also like to ask this--let's suppose that 8-2 w/g would be adequate for the hot tub, would running 8-3 w/g allow an extra 120V circuit for some "mood lighting"? If so, that would seal the deal...so to speak.

Thanks to all who will help me learn how to DIY this one correctly!!

Dugly :cool:

Scuba_Dave 03-23-2009 07:23 PM

50a I went #6 wire, I don't think #8 will work
white neutral, 2 black hots, insulated green ground
GFCI breaker

rgsgww 03-23-2009 07:24 PM

There are a lot of requirements for such installs, I will let the sparkies chime in for those.

First of all 8 cannot supply 50 amps. You need 6 for 50 amps.

You will need gfci protection.

I would run a 4 wire setup (plus ground)

DangerMouse 03-23-2009 07:26 PM

"get by"? what does the manufacturer of the tub say to use?

DM

oh, and LTNS!

InPhase277 03-23-2009 07:35 PM

Your best bet would probably be to run the wiring in 3/4" conduit to a temporary box, until you know what you need when you get the tub. A black, red, and white #6 THHN/THWN with a green #10 THHN/THWN ground would set you up for a maximum of 60 A at 120/240 V. Don't terminate the wiring in the panel until you know what kind of breaker you need. Just tape the ends up and push them out of the way. Don't use romex, and don't listen to the Home Depot idiot.

Jim Port 03-23-2009 07:44 PM

The one I wired this morning called for a grounding wire the same size as the circuit conductors. The best bet is to find the requirements for the specific tub you are interested in.

There is also a requirement for a 120V GFI protected receptacle that you should rough in now also. IIRC it neds to be at least 10 foot away from the inside wall of the tub.

Depending on what the tub will sit on you may need to consider the boding issue also.

NolaTigaBait 03-23-2009 07:54 PM

Quote:

The one I wired this morning called for a grounding wire the same size as the circuit conductors
see, i dont understand this...250.122 (i think) says that you need a number 10 for a 50 amp breaker...and it has gfi protection,..whats the deal?...also, inphase says don 't run romex,so obviously if you need a #6 ground, romex would not suffice...

qbert 03-23-2009 08:04 PM

Romex is not made to pulled threw conduit. Use stranded thhn or thwn No 6 for a grounding is ok, but not required. You will need a service disconnect in sight of the mtr. I would run 3/4 conduit as suggested to a disconnect fed from a gfci breaker of proper size and bonding all metal water lines to mtr lug. Running a seperate 1/2 inch conduit with no 12 thhn/thwn for a outdoor gfci repticle

NolaTigaBait 03-23-2009 08:09 PM

Quote:


Romex is not made to pulled threw conduit.
its through and i'm not aware of any code that says you CAN"T put romex in tubing, as long as its not a wet or damp location

qbert 03-23-2009 08:13 PM

Pulling no 6 throgh 3/4 or 1in conduit better purchase two bottles of soap/lube lol

NolaTigaBait 03-23-2009 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qbert (Post 249093)
Pulling no 6 throgh 3/4 or 1in conduit better purchase two bottles of soap/lube lol

typical, i'm not saying that he SHOULD do it, i was asking about the romex in general, why would you not be ablr to use this method in say new construction....it's done here all the time

qbert 03-23-2009 08:25 PM

Typically hot tubs are outdoors. Romex is not made for direct burial/direct sunlight and pulling through pvc,rigid,or imc is not an easy task i am sure people do it just not a standard. Strait runs would be easy first 90 the trouble would start.

InPhase277 03-23-2009 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NolaTigaBait (Post 249100)
typical, i'm not saying that he SHOULD do it, i was asking about the romex in general, why would you not be ablr to use this method in say new construction....it's done here all the time

Due to the lack of an insulated ground. For pool equipment, the ground is required to be insulated. Romex has a bare ground. To tell the truth, I'm not sure if it translates to hot tubs, but we have always been required to have an insulated ground on pools and hot tubs alike. 250.122 still applies in most cases, so you could use a #10 ground up to 60 A.

NolaTigaBait 03-23-2009 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qbert (Post 249105)
Typically hot tubs are outdoors. Romex is not made for direct burial/direct sunlight and pulling through pvc,rigid,or imc is not an easy task i am sure people do it just not a standard. Strait runs would be easy first 90 the trouble would start.

wow, is this guy serious...did i not say earlier that romex CANNOT be run in damp or wet locations???...can you read?...i know it would be hard, jeeeez....

NolaTigaBait 03-23-2009 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InPhase277 (Post 249107)
Due to the lack of an insulated ground. For pool equipment, the ground is required to be insulated. Romex has a bare ground. To tell the truth, I'm not sure if it translates to hot tubs, but we have always been required to have an insulated ground on pools and hot tubs alike. 250.122 still applies in most cases, so you could use a #10 ground up to 60 A.

this is what i was asking....its obviously a manufacturers thing(having an insulated eg)....ive never seen a person lose sleep around here for running romex in conduit and even underground(even though it is a violation)


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