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Old 12-20-2011, 07:28 PM   #31
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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St Clair is a county in Illinoise, which is the same state you can guess which city is in? Oh crap, it's Chicago!
WRONG!!!!!!


St. Clair County is across the river from St. Louis, MO....missed it by only 400 miles, darn.

Chicago is in Cook County, learn to read a map.

Even if you find a code book for COOK COUNTY, believe me it doesn't mean it applies to the CITY of Chicago.





Quote:
Illinoise
by the way...there is no NOISE in Illinois.....so learn to read a map AND spell correctly...if you found Illinois(no "e") on a map, just copy the spelling from that.....

Last edited by Gary in WA; 12-20-2011 at 09:50 PM. Reason: removed name calling per forum rules.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:41 PM   #32
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
There are many examples of union work rules that did not lead to productive use of maintenance resources! Take changing a pump for example, it requires a minimum of three unions to be involved, electricians, pipefitters and millrights. In reality, the people does it really take to do that job?

There are many more examples but especially in the maintenance crafts each union tries to protect their niche and really is concerned about lowering costs and raising productivity. This is especially true in the Chicago area but also could be seen in many other Northeastern and Midwestern areas.
Did you know in the State of Washington, its illegal for anyone in a commercial setting to do anyform of Electrical work of anykind without either being licensed, or having a Licensed Electrician oversee the work being done? That holds true on a maintenance team as well.

Did you know a Plumber isn't allowed to connect the three wires that go into an Electric Water Heater, despite having adapters that plug into each other? And it has nothing to dow ith being union, it has to do with who's licensed to do what.

Same mentality can be taken into the medical sector. You're not going to have a gynocologist conduct chemo therapy for cancer in the female genitals. Nor will you have a Gynocologist do a Prostate Exam, without a Proctologist overseeing the gynocologists work.

Nor will you have an EKG Technician doing MRIs, or an X-Ray Technician doing EKGs.

If you're not licensed to do the work, guess what? You're not licensed to do it, therefore, you're not legal to do the work unless properly supervised by the person who has the license.

REason you have a Plumber involved, is because a Plumbers job and licensure is installing fuel lines. Anyform of gas or fluid piping, is done by a Plumber. Anything that has to do with high pressure or high temperature steam, falls onto a pipefitter.

The Millwrights job, is to assemble and/or repair Mechanical components or machines. Which an Electrician would not be qualified, or educated enough to do. Nor would a Plumber.

It's why on a Maintenance Team, a typical Maintenance TEam, you will have: Carpenter, Electrician, Plumber, HVAC-R Technician, Pipefitter/Steamfitter, Equipment Operation and Landscaper. Those are the primary slots you'll typically see on a maintenance team, and then any low level personelle that help/support them doing their work.

Every member of the maintenance team will have a basic understanding and knowledge of all tasks, conditions, and types of work and products each member of the maintenance team specializes in, so everyone can do everyones job on the basic level, to allow SMEs to focus on the more in-depth work towards their trade. Saves time, money, and increases production.

And it allows the Team to do all tasks, because they have someone who has the required license to inspect/oversee work being done. Making that work legal.

Unions have absolutely nothing to do with it, state legislature does, because teh STATE wants to see a LICENSE to do the work. Why? Because they want to know who's going to sue who and who's liable to pay for damages being done.

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-20-2011 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:43 PM   #33
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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Originally Posted by jproffer View Post
WRONG!!!!!!


St. Clair County is across the river from St. Louis, MO....missed it by only 400 miles, darn.

Chicago is in Cook County, learn to read a map.

Even if you find a code book for COOK COUNTY, believe me it doesn't mean it applies to the CITY of Chicago.


Document said St Clair County Illinois unless I misread it.

Even if it was cook county, you'd still have a code reference to discuss with the commissioners office, which was the entire point of it.




by the way...there is no NOISE in Illinois.....so learn to read a map AND spell correctly...if you found Illinois(no "e") on a map, just copy the spelling from that.....

Document said St Clair County Illinois unless I misread it.

Even if it was cook county, you'd still have a code reference to discuss with the commissioners office, which was the entire point of it.


Quote:
County of St. Clair
Building & Zoning Department
10 Public Square

Belleville, Illinois 62220


Mike Mitchell, Director (618) 277-6600 Ext. 2530
Schedule Inspections (618) 277-6600 Ext. 2644
Hours 8:00 a.m. – 4:30 p.m.
BUILDING INFORMATION SHEET


All ground disturbing activities in the unincorporated area of St. Clair County MUST FIRST FILE A SEDIMENTATION AND EROSION CONTROL PLAN with the St. Clair County Soil and Water Conservation District prior to a building permit being issued. Soil and Water Conservation office is located at 2031 Mascoutah Road, Belleville, Illinois, phone number is (618) 233-5577.

Property must have an assigned address from the 9-1-1 Coordinating office prior to a building permit being issued. The 9-1-1 Coordinating office is located at 101 First St., Belleville, Illinois, phone number is (618) 277-7316.

A Copy of the recorded deed must accompany this application for Zoning Compliance. All contracts for deed must be recorded in the Recorder of Deeds office prior to applying for a building permit.

If this is an application for a commercial/industrial structure, (2) two sets of plans and specifications designed by the architect that is licensed and registered in the State of Illinois must accompany this application. The seal must appear on all sheets of the plans and specifications.

You must also have a letter from the architect indicating that the plans are for the construction as being submitted.
And please tell me where it states missouri...

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-20-2011 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:57 PM   #34
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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Even if it was cook county, you'd still have a code reference to discuss with the commissioners office, which was the entire point of it.
OK, well regardless of what county it is in, your "code reference to discuss with the commissioners office" would be invalid unless the place your working is governed by the COUNTY code....which Chicago CITY isn't.

And on that note, I won't argue this point (again and again and again) any more. Chicago code is a CITY code...Chicago city could care less what Cook County says, or what the state of Illinois says because Chicago CITY code is more strict than either of those, so Chicago CITY code can and does overrule them.



Quote:
And please tell me where it states missouri...
OK then...St. Clair County is where Belleville, IL is...feel better...know where that is?? Didn't think so....well I'll tell ya....it's across the Mississippi River (which seperates Illinois and Missouri) from St. Louis, MO (I assumed that would be a more nationally known reference than Belleville, IL)

Last edited by jproffer; 12-20-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:13 PM   #35
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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Originally Posted by jproffer View Post
OK, well regardless of what county it is in, your "code reference to discuss with the commissioners office" would be invalid unless the place your working is governed by the COUNTY code....which Chicago CITY isn't.

And on that note, I won't argue this point (again and again and again) any more. Chicago code is a CITY code...Chicago city could care less what Cook County says, or what the state of Illinois says because Chicago CITY code is more strict than either of those, so Chicago CITY code can and does overrule them.





OK then...St. Clair County is where Belleville, IL is...feel better...know where that is?? Didn't think so....well I'll tell ya....it's across the Mississippi River (which seperates Illinois and Missouri) from St. Louis, MO (I assumed that would be a more nationally known reference than Belleville, IL)

Which is why you BRING IT UP TO THE CITY and you ASK THEM HEY does THIS CODE apply to CHICAGO's building conformaties?

IS THIS acceptable per BUILDING code for THIS city?

THAT is why I even POSTED THE LINK to the commissioners office, which has a contact section.

So the OP DOES have a reference to Electrical code, and can ASK IF IT APPLIES, or what Chicagos ammendments to that code are, if at all.

THAT is why it's posted, THAT is how it helps.

Have you ever done this before? With respect, it defintiely doesn't seem like it.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:13 PM   #36
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


BigGuy01, I am sorry that your state (as well as many others) are so shortsighted that they truly believe a person is only capable of successfully and safely performing maintenance tasks in one field of expertise. Because of that your area and company are probably going to go the way of many others who were so shortsighted! In today's real world efficiency of the workforce is the name of the game in order to stay competitive.

The multinational company that I work for trains all of our maintenance professionals to be at least skilled in two major fields and many of them are experts in at least three! Obviously none of our facilities have unions and are all located in right to work states. Having a union does nothing to promote better craftsmanship nor a better working relationship between labor and management, all it does is interfere in that relationship.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:18 PM   #37
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


Can't edit my above for some reason its locked?

Anyways, no point even discussing this, Per Chicago a homeowner is not permitted to even touch electrical work.

Electrical Inspections


Phone: (312) 743-3622
keith.hall@cityofchicago.org

The goal of the Electrical Inspection Bureau is to enforce the safe installation of electrical wiring and equipment and to avoid the danger of electrical shock and fire. Inspectors work in conjunction with electrical contractors and building owners to ensure all buildings meet the City of Chicago electrical code requirements.
The Electrical Bureau is responsible for a variety of inspections. Our primary function is to inspect all electrical installations and to check that they are installed in an approved manner to ensure public safety. The Bureau responds to complaints of code violations and assures that they are corrected. We also conduct annual inspections of nursing homes, day care centers, electrical signs, and buildings defined as Public Places of Assembly. In addition, the Bureau inspects fire alarms, and life safety emergency systems in a variety of buildings and institutions, to ensure code compliance and safety.
Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: Can owners do their own electrical work?
A: No. Due to the potential for electric shock or fire hazard, only Electrical Contractors licensed by the City of Chicago can perform electrical installations.
Q: Can an owner obtain an electrical permit?
A: The licensed electrical contractor completes the required permit application, along with the supervising electricians signature and license number.
Q: Does the City's Electrical Bureau recognize T U V AMERICA as a national recognized testing laboratory?
A: The city of Chicago Electrical Inspection Bureau does recognize T U V AMERICA as a national recognized testing laboratory. Products bearing a TUV label would be acceptable to the city's electric inspection bureau. Please see Section 18-27-110.2 of the city electrical code for this requirement.
Q: As a tenant, who do I call if I have electrical violations that the landlord will not repair?
A: Call 311. Please give as much detailed information as possible, including a daytime phone number so that the inspector can contact you to arrange a date and time for an inspection.

Additional Information

Electrical regulations are found in Title 14 of the Chicago Building Code, chapters 14-8 through 14- 72. Only registered electrical contractors are issued permits to perform electrical work. Electrical work is permitted either as part of a "Building Permit" or as "Electrical Work Only".
Electrical Work associated with a "Building Permit":
Building Permit Applications must include a properly filled out short form Electrical Permit Application. These applications are available from the Department of Buildings website. All short form electrical applications are signed by the licensed supervising electrician employed by the Contractor. Note that the Electrical Contractor's name, address and license number should be entered on the face of the Building Permit Application in the appropriate area. Electrical plans are required by various sections within the Code. An outline of these requirements can be found on the following page. Required drawings, load calculations or letters of relief should accompany the Building Permit submittal. Relief from the Code will only be considered before a permit is issued. Jobs that require Exit/Emergency Fire Prevention review will be accepted with a receipt from FPB confirming submittal along with the required electrical drawing. Jobs requiring a Standard Fire Alarm will be accepted without drawings but must include a FPB receipt confirming submittal. Before work begins on a required fire alarm system, all reviews must be complete and a separate wiring permit shall be obtained.




http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en...spections.html

EDIT

BTW, I see nothing in this that says anything about Unions

Last edited by BigGuy01; 12-20-2011 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:21 PM   #38
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
BigGuy01, I am sorry that your state (as well as many others) are so shortsighted that they truly believe a person is only capable of successfully and safely performing maintenance tasks in one field of expertise. Because of that your area and company are probably going to go the way of many others who were so shortsighted! In today's real world efficiency of the workforce is the name of the game in order to stay competitive.

The multinational company that I work for trains all of our maintenance professionals to be at least skilled in two major fields and many of them are experts in at least three! Obviously none of our facilities have unions and are all located in right to work states. Having a union does nothing to promote better craftsmanship nor a better working relationship between labor and management, all it does is interfere in that relationship.
Where I train and do work, it's the same way. Everyone cross trains into everyones field on a basic level, but then have licensure in a specific area to legally oversee work being done.

For your Company, unless you have dual license holders (like Plumbing and Electrical Licenses with one guy etc.) it would be legally impossible to have people have two major focus areas.

However, the reason why they have licensed personelle, is so they have someone to fall back to for more complicated matters of the job, and to legally sign off on the quality of work, and determine if work meets specs.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:25 PM   #39
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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it would be legally impossible to have people have two major focus areas.
You make assumptions based on where YOU live. Some places don't require all trades to be licensed...in other words, they finally got over themselves.....when WA does, you will have more opportunity too
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:30 PM   #40
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


franwalker The best thing you can do is contact the local AHJ and see what they recommend. It's very unlikely that you will be allowed to do the work yourself in Chicago. You will wind up paying a local contractor that the city has licensed for work there.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:30 PM   #41
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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You make assumptions based on where YOU live. Some places don't require all trades to be licensed...in other words, they finally got over themselves.....when WA does, you will have more opportunity too
There isn't a state in the country that does not require an Electrician to be Licensed, or any states that don't require their Plumbers to be Licensed, Nor any states that don't require general contractors to be Licensed.

Then you have individual cities that have their own licenses which require state licenses to even apply for the city licenses.

Such as what I'm finding wit Chicago, to get a Chicago Electricians License, you have to be licensed as an Electrician with the State of Illinois, and then apply for Licensure with the City of Chicago. Both licenses are required to remain current to work as an Electrical Contractor in Chicago.

That said, the OP cannot legally even touch his electrical circuits in his home, much less even touch conduit per Chicagos statutes.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en...spections.html

Also finding in Chicago, Concrete work doe snot fall under a General Contractors License, you have to get the General Contractors License through the state of Illinois, then to do anything with concrete in Chicago, you have to get a Chicago Masonry License.

Also, Electricians in Chicago are not permitted to handle circuit breakers in Chicago City Limits. So, an Electrician in Chicago has to have an Illinois Electricians License, then get a Chicago Electrical Contractors License, and THEN they have to get a Chicago Circuitbreaker License.

That's outright ridiculous. O.O

They also have to start at "C" Level in each of Chicago cities licenses, and get 6,000hrs performing each the Electrical Contractors License and Circuit Breakers Licenses to get them to "A" level.

They literally do expect home owners to be nimrods. holy crap O.O Even California's not that hard to get licenses.

Last edited by Gary in WA; 12-20-2011 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Removed profanity as per forum rules.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:35 PM   #42
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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There isn't a state in the country that does not require an Electrician to be Licensed
I'm done with you.......




Quote:
ILLINOIS *
Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation
320 W. Washington
Springfield, IL 62786
Phone: (217) 785-0800
Fax: (217) 782-7645

100 W. Randolph, 9th Floor
Chicago, IL 60601
Phone: (312) 814- 4500
Fax: (312) 814- 3145

No Licensing of Electricians at State Level, Check with Local Jurisdictions.
From THIS site

and before you say it, and I KNOW you will....some "local jurisdictions" don't care one way or another.



Good day sir
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:38 PM   #43
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...and Missouri does not require an electricians license at a state level.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:40 PM   #44
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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I'm done with you.......






From THIS site

and before you say it, and I KNOW you will....some "local jurisdictions" don't care one way or another.



Good day sir
That's funny, because the city of Chicago requires an ILLINOIS ELECTRICIANS LICENSE to even APPLY for a City of Chicago Electrical Contractors License, and a City of Chicago Circuit Breaker License.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:41 PM   #45
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Schedule 40 PVC in Chicago?


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There isn't a state in the country that does not require an Electrician to be Licensed, or any states that don't require their Plumbers to be Licensed, Nor any states that don't require general contractors to be Licensed.

Then you have individual cities that have their own licenses which require state licenses to even apply for the city licenses.

Such as what I'm finding wit Chicago, to get a Chicago Electricians License, you have to be licensed as an Electrician with the State of Illinois, and then apply for Licensure with the City of Chicago. Both licenses are required to remain current to work as an Electrical Contractor in Chicago.

That said, the OP cannot legally even touch his electrical circuits in his home, much less even touch conduit per Chicagos statutes.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en...spections.html

Also finding in Chicago, Concrete work doe snot fall under a General Contractors License, you have to get the General Contractors License through the state of Illinois, then to do anything with concrete in Chicago, you have to get a Chicago Masonry License.

Also, Electricians in Chicago are not permitted to handle circuit breakers in Chicago City Limits. So, an Electrician in Chicago has to have an Illinois Electricians License, then get a Chicago Electrical Contractors License, and THEN they have to get a Chicago Circuitbreaker License.

That's outright ridiculous. O.O

They also have to start at "C" Level in each of Chicago cities licenses, and get 6,000hrs performing each the Electrical Contractors License and Circuit Breakers Licenses to get them to "A" level.

They literally do expect home owners to be nimrods. holy crap O.O Even California's not that hard to get licenses.
Indiana for one has no statewide electrical licensing. Other states do not as well.
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