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Old 06-28-2010, 04:21 PM   #16
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Running new(up to code) ground wire & protection.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
The water line ground is the primary. The rods would be the supplemental ground.
This is my cold water pipe. Does this looks like a good primary ground connection?
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:02 PM   #17
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Running new(up to code) ground wire & protection.


Of course you can't use plastic pipe as a grounding electrode. The OP was talking about metallic pipe which should always be used when available. Ground rods are almost always required as well but they are a far less effective means of grounding.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:04 PM   #18
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Running new(up to code) ground wire & protection.


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Originally Posted by xxPaulCPxx View Post
This is my cold water pipe. Does this looks like a good primary ground connection?
No, and no way does it come close to what the OP was tallking about either. I have highlighted the part in blue that tells us they are dealing with a metallic water line. I doubt their friend the electrician would tell them to ground a plastic water line.

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Originally Posted by MikeSF View Post

Currently it's a 100amp panel, and the current ground consisted of a #6 wire being strung up to and attached to a cold water pipe that's somewhat close to the panel (maybe 10 feet), I was told that I need to connect a ground within 5 feet of where the cold water enters the ground, as well as connect to the house size of the gas lines as well (I don't get it, but whatever), and the wire needs to be at least #4 which I have plenty of (also need to hammer ground rods for a 2nd.. but whatever for now).
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Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:19 PM   #19
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That's the thing about "when available"... sometimes the ground through the pipe is available, then the water company comes and makes it not available. I doubt the water company will bring an electrician with to make sure you get a new ground installed after they cut off the one you were using previously. I doubt the homeowner will know that the shiny new pipe on the outside of the house isn't a ground path anymore, as the ground connection from the service panel to the pipe is buried inside the wall.

Plastic happens. No one is going to replace a pair of ground rods with plastic, but they WILL do that with a cold water supply pipe. The most effective ground is one that will not be cut arbitrarily in the future.

The advice you seem to be presenting is that the cold water pipe is the only ground he will have to worry about, since it is such a superior conductor.

Is it? Or does that super awesome conductor ground conductor ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER ground attachment? Does anyone consider a cold water pipe OK as being the only ground connection (not talking about grandfathering)?
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxPaulCPxx View Post
This is my cold water pipe. Does this looks like a good primary ground connection?
OK, now we are playing the semantics game. I think it is silly to suggest that he was talking about a plastic water pipe. Just as I think it is silly to consider a "what if" scenario about a metallic pipe being replaced by plastic.
When and if that happens you STILL need a water bond, which you will already have. And you will still need a ground rod or two, which you will already have.

If the pipe is plastic to begin with, simply bond the metallic interior sections and install your ground rods, Ufer, or whatever.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:29 PM   #21
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I have highlighted the part in blue that tells us they are dealing with a metallic water line. I doubt their friend the electrician would tell them to ground a plastic water line.
For now the water line is metallic, as least as far as he can see. Is their plastic to the curb - maybe. Will he have to get the line repaired in the future due to a leak - maybe. No one is going to ground to a water pipe, at least not on purpose. They will connect to a solid copper pipe that goes into the concrete... and gets turned into plastic on the other side.

Hey, maybe it's just me, but I think a good house ground should be based on more than a maybe.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:39 PM   #22
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I think it is silly to suggest that he was talking about a plastic water pipe. Just as I think it is silly to consider a "what if" scenario about a metallic pipe being replaced by plastic.
I'm sorry if you though I was talking about grounding directly to a plastic water pipe, that is certainly not what I ment, nor what I was suggesting what anyone else ment. I was suggesting that the ground connection to the solid copper tube would happen inside the structure, but that the tube might not stay continuously solid copper. I used my house as an illustration.

If you consider repiping a house with plastic silly, I encourage you to check out my neighborhood. We've had a few people around here have to repipe thier house due to all the copper in the dirt under the slab rotting away. They repipe by running new copper, plastic, or PEX in the attic. The stuff in the slab gets capped.

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When and if that happens you STILL need a water bond, which you will already have. And you will still need a ground rod or two, which you will already have.
Absolutely true!
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:02 PM   #23
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If you consider repiping a house with plastic silly, I encourage you to check out my neighborhood.
That is not what I meant. I meant that worrying about the "what if" was silly.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:36 PM   #24
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Running new(up to code) ground wire & protection.


Ummm yikes, didn't mean to ask a question that gets tempers so flared up.

Thanks for the advice, I understand about the copper might get cut in the future, although I thought pvc as water pipe wasn't up to code (at least around here)... but regardless, I was not suggesting that the copper into the concrete slab in my garage which goes to the curb be my only ground, just was curious if the wire going to THAT ground needs to be in conduit or "protected" similar to wires that carry current, which seems that the answer is no.

Again thanks to all who helped
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Old 07-02-2010, 05:20 PM   #25
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Ummm yikes, didn't mean to ask a question that gets tempers so flared up.
Really?? I guess some folks read into things more.

I don't see where tempers are flared. I just see a good mature discussion.
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Old 07-04-2010, 05:33 PM   #26
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Exactly, that was just a good back and forth!

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