Running Conduit From Attic To Garage. - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2010, 03:00 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Hi,

I am new here so sorry if i have missed anything.


We have a 1994 home in North Carolina and i am looking to put in some conduit from the attic to the garage.

The reason for doing this iswe have a home automation system and i need to get wires easily to and from the garage. It is a straight run from the attic thru a built in closet to the garage and i was planning on mounting the conduit on the outside of the wall.

Is there any rule or consideration about the exhaust gasses or any other issues around running conduit from the attic to the garage?

Thanks in advance

Raptor

Advertisement

raptor_demon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:10 PM   #2
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


if you are penetrating a fire wall, you will need to comply with approved methods and materials in the installation.

as to just your question, seal the conduit with duct seal if it isn't a fire wall issue. Conduits that run from one temperature environment to another must be sealed to prevent air flow which results in condensation on the cold side as well.

Advertisement

nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:20 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Where is the outside wall ? Outside the house ?
Or a wall in the garage ?
I would never run conduit on the outside of a house, looks very bad
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:30 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 10
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


This is going to be on the inside of the outside wall. If that makes sense.

It would run straight up from the garage(1st floor), throught a spare bedroom closet (2nd floor)then into the attic to allow for easy wire runs of cat5e, RG6 etc....

As i am going throught 2 celings i guess i will need a fire break....

Maybe this is not worth the effort...
Raptor
raptor_demon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:58 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


My conduit runs do not have any fireblock inside the conduit
Once the wires are run seal each end with duct seal/etc
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 05:33 PM   #6
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
My conduit runs do not have any fireblock inside the conduit
Once the wires are run seal each end with duct seal
If they pass through a firewall, for them to be legal they must have fire caulk in them or some other accepted firestop system.

duct seal is not acceptable as a fire stop. It has no fire rating (that I am aware of anyway)

want to know how many UL listings there are on firestopping the various types of conduit?


the correct answer to that question is; NO.
-----------------------

there are a lot.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 05:37 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Exactly how do you put a fire stop "in them" when you must glue the conduit 1st before running the wires ?
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 06:27 PM   #8
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Exactly how do you put a fire stop "in them" when you must glue the conduit 1st before running the wires ?
you had to ask... I warned you.


so, to give you the most accurate answer with the least inapplicable systems,
--------------------------

type of conduit (material)

size of conduit

fire rating of wall

construction materials (stud material , sheathing (type and thickness) , insulation y/n and material)

dimensions of wall both over all and thickness

number and distance from this penetration of any other penetration (either side) and if in the same stud cavity


does the conduit pass through the wall perpendicular to the wall or at an angle. if an angle, at what angle

is there any space between the sheathing and the conduit (annulus) if so, is it eccentric or concentric.

what is the size of the annular space. if concentric, minimum and maximum and if concentric, is there any point where there is no annular space

does the conduit pass completely through the wall of does it enter a box within the wall

is the conduit open ended or does it continue to a closed junction box
--------------------

I think that about covers everything that is considered when determining a proper fire stopping system (seriously) when putting conduit through a fire rated wall

Last edited by nap; 01-25-2010 at 06:31 PM.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 06:48 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


I still don't see any indication of what the proper fire stopping is ?

Let's assume this is going junction box to breaker panel
All the way thru the wall, less then 1.5" in size, stud wall, only penetration in the stud cavity
Would the fire caulk at each opening (panel & junction box) meet code ?
I think that is all the OP is looking for (and me actually)
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:09 PM   #10
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I still don't see any indication of what the proper fire stopping is ?

Let's assume this is going junction box to breaker panel
All the way thru the wall, less then 1.5" in size, stud wall, only penetration in the stud cavity
Would the fire caulk at each opening (panel & junction box) meet code ?
I think that is all the OP is looking for (and me actually)
Ah, you forgot to tell me what kind of conduit.

My point with the lengthy list is; each of those variables actually are used to determine how to properly fire stop a penetration through a fire rated wall.

so, lets presume it is PVC conduit, 1 hour rated (1 sheet 5/8 rock each side of wall), plus your specs:

If you use Hilti products (I can generally speak with specificity more easily about their products. others would have to be verified but most manufacturers have similar products for any one that Hilti has)

so, you would need a 5/8 (I believe. I would have to verify this to be positive) up to 2" maximum annulus and use FS1, It would have to be the full thickness of the sheetrock and at least flush with the surface of the rock on the face sides.

this would have to be applied at each side of the wall. There would be no requirement to stop the inside of the conduit but as stated before, if there is a temp difference between the two ends of the conduit, you must stop it to prevent air flow.

If you were using metal conduit, you could have as little as 0" annulus and up to 2". The thickness of the caulk must be at least 5/8"thick so that means where there is less than a 5/8" annulus, you would have to have a fillet that would allow at least 5/8" of caulk.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:17 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brooklyn, New York (NYC)
Posts: 1,124
Rewards Points: 500
Question

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor_demon View Post
This is going to be on the inside of the outside wall. If that makes sense.

It would run straight up from the garage(1st floor), throught a spare bedroom closet (2nd floor)then into the attic to allow for easy wire runs of cat5e, RG6 etc....

As i am going throught 2 celings i guess i will need a fire break....

Maybe this is not worth the effort...
Raptor
My question was going to be if it's low voltage wiring (for Home automation), then you could use PVC instead of conduit. But your issue was primarily inadvertent venting or destroying a fire stop!!
spark plug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:28 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brooklyn, New York (NYC)
Posts: 1,124
Rewards Points: 500
Question

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
My question was going to be if it's low voltage wiring (for Home automation), then you could use PVC instead of conduit. But your issue was primarily inadvertent venting or destroying a fire stop!!
This is an addendum to the previous post. The term "Conduit", in prior years was presumed to be Metal (EMT or Rigid). But in contemporary terms it can also mean PVC and other hollow material suitable to encase wires.!
spark plug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:39 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Thanks Nap....I have no idea what you said
No offense ....really

Ok, here is a pic of a wall penetration - 5/8 sheetrock
Now....the difference in what I do is that the opening is tight to the pipe
The sheetrock opening is just barely big enough to let the PVC go thru
Insulation in the wall, wall is pre-existing
So the firecode compound seals the sheetrock to the PVC conduit ?

Now I've seen PVC going thru garage walls all the time (not as many as an electrician)
But I've yet to see anything that looks like anything more then drywall compound ?
I'm just trying to figure this out
I do have a 3/4" PVC conduit going from basement to the garage
Regardless of if the Inspector will notice or mention fireblocking I'd like to know what to do



Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:50 PM   #14
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


Quote:
Scuba_Dave;389131]Thanks Nap....I have no idea what you said
No offense ....really
I said, for the most part, what you see but I gave specific numbers.

what you presented is sort of ok but the problem is, do you have a UL listing number for that system (complete method of fire stop)?

I'll explain what I said in terms of this pic.

Notice at one point it states 1 1/4" maximum? that is where, with the Hilti (and with a lot of work, I could find the actual listing number to support my numbers), I said 2"/ Opposite that, they show 1/4". that would be to my 5/8".

that gap is called an annulus. Just a fancy name for a ring (think annular eclipse)

at least 1 thing not included in that is what to use for fire stop compound. PVC conduit requires the use of an expanding material. When the pipe melts, the caulk will expand and pinch the hole closed. That is why you MUST NOT have less than (1/4" in this pic, 5/8" in my explanation) annulus. If the cault is not between the rock and the pipe, it cannot squeeze the conduit closed.

that is why you can have a 0 annular clearance when using metal because all the fire caulk has to do is keep the hole sealed. It does not need to have an mechanical action to close the pipe.

and just because you have seen it does not make it right. I know very few resi guys that know anything about this so unless an inspector (and honestly, many of them are ignorant of it as well) catches it and requires it, it doesn't get done. The expanding caulk is about $20 for a large tube of caulk. Most people don't want to spend the money.

let me see if I have any of the paperwork from my last job with all the specs and UL listing numbers you would need. If I can't find that, I'll try to find it on the net.

Last edited by nap; 01-25-2010 at 09:53 PM.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 09:58 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Running conduit from attic to garage.


OK, that clicks with what I have read & makes sense now
I agree just because I have seen without it does not make it right
Possibly it was already painted same as the walls

Sheetrock will not "burn", PVC will
So do you actually need a hole larger then the PVC - mine is tight
Or just the fire block material around the hole min & max sizes met so it will expand & block the hole

Thanks

Advertisement

Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Running new circuit in existing conduit TomServo Electrical 1 10-11-2009 02:39 PM
Garage Wiring issues jimmyfloyd Electrical 20 06-08-2009 03:57 PM
Running 6/3 cable-do I need conduit? Kips Electrical 6 01-16-2009 12:36 PM
Running Conduit in new basement framed walls tben Electrical 3 12-11-2004 12:14 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts