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Old 06-21-2009, 12:29 AM   #31
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by Wildie View Post
OK, perhaps multi-phase is used in the US for res. service I can't say that it isn't. I can say that it is never, ever used here in Canada.
[I have visited over 30 different US states and have never encountered multi-phase residential service in any of them.]

If you think that I am wrong, it is incumbent on yourself to point out in what way I may be in error!
Have you ever been to NYC? Did you see the wiring on the poles?
I believe that the POCO, Con Edison provides 3-phase 125v. power even to residential service!!! I believe the same case is true for Montreal, too. I've lived there a while !!!

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Old 06-21-2009, 09:13 AM   #32
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by nap View Post
You said this:

If you connect two in series and connect to 120 volts, you will have 60 volts applied to each one.
Not the scenerio that you are looking for.


in response to ( I am presuming since you did quote it) this:





the OP was speaking of connecting both legs of his service to one terminal of the recep and the neutral to the other.

while you were technically correct in your series circuit scenario, you were wrong concerning anything the OP was suggesting.

Oh, and just FYI; there are multi-phase systems in some resi services but it is far from the norm.
Thank you!

You seem to be better at translating than I. It never occurred to me that the OP would even consider connecting 220 to a 120 house circuit.

On my first post I was responding the OP's statement about the voltages being out of phase and I was trying to point out that this is not correct! (terminology)

quote<I know that american wiring has the two 120V sources 180 out of phase. But what exactly will happen if I connect the two, and run it to one prong, and the neutral to the other? >unquote

Last edited by Wildie; 06-21-2009 at 09:19 AM. Reason: To attach the quote
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:20 AM   #33
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


What kind of fish tank is this?
One that the contents are expendable?
I have a 240g saltwater setup

I wouldn't even think about connecting a device that
#1 Is not connected to a GFCI
#2 there is any doubt about its MFG, use, power supplied
#3 Does not have a ground
#4 Harder - FROM China
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:07 AM   #34
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
I have a 240g saltwater setup
Holy crap!

Do you do school field trips?
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:09 AM   #35
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
What kind of fish tank is this?
One that the contents are expendable?
I have a 240g saltwater setup

I wouldn't even think about connecting a device that
#1 Is not connected to a GFCI
#2 there is any doubt about its MFG, use, power supplied
#3 Does not have a ground
#4 Harder - FROM China
120G Saltwater. I'm on here asking questions. Not just plugging it in.

1. It is connected to a GFCI, all my connections are besides the heater and one powerhead.

2. I know the MFG.

3. There are tons of items for the aquarium that don't have a ground. Have you never used a Maxijet?

Tyler
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Old 06-21-2009, 11:10 AM   #36
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by hellfire View Post
120G Saltwater. I'm on here asking questions.
3. There are tons of items for the aquarium that don't have a ground. Have you never used a Maxijet?

Tyler
You can't pay me to use a maxi jet
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Old 06-21-2009, 05:02 PM   #37
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


If it came from the factory without a ground, and it has a UL listing, then it's double insulated. If it doesn't have a UL listing, there's likely no way to know.

If it's a single device connected to an isolating transformer (voltage converter), I don't see where grounding would be an issue. More than one device could possibly cause problems.

If the voltage converter is an autotransformer, then you're protected by the GFI.

Rob

P.S. My house has a 120/208 3 phase 4 wire wye system. It's very rare to find a house with 3 phase, but they do exist.

P.P.S. The 20 amp 250 volt receptacles in my garage that I run the 220 volt 50 HZ tools from has a buck-boost transformer in the circuit. The actual voltage is right at 240.
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Old 06-21-2009, 06:53 PM   #38
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by hellfire View Post
Here is my main question holding me back.

Alright, a normal 240V appliance, has 3 plugs. 2 hot, and 1 Neutral, correct?

How do I, get 240V to only my 2 prong device?

Tyler
I think that when you start making statements along these lines is when you start raising the hackles of lots of readers around here. I'm not sure what you mean by a "240v appliance" - do you mean a North American applicance that requires two balanced 120v supplies and a neutral to run (like a clothes dryer)? or do you mean a European/Other appliance that requires one 240v. supply and a neutral (and/or ground) to run?

A 120v appliance here in the US typically requires 1 incoming 120volt supply line and a neutral to complete the circuit and run. A "240v appliance" *usually* means the item is intended to run on consumer electrical service in places other than north america and requires 1 incoming 220 to 240v supply line and a neutral to complete the circuit and run. In Europe or elsewhere, they don't just "combine 120v lines" to make things 240v and run their appliances - the transformers that take utility power and step it down from higher (sometimes very high) distribution voltages to "consumer" voltages are set to create the 120volts on the wire when it's connected in a complete circuit here in the US, and set to create the higher 220 to 240volts on the wire when it's connected in a complete circuit in England.

two short bits of lingo I see missing from many conversations on this topic that might help you understand is "with respect to neutral", or "with respect to Phase". In my biz (stage lighting systems, both permanent and touring) we regularly have conversations like this, especially when touring equipment moves across oceans. To make this more clear, if you take your multimeter (set to read voltage) and put the probes between a black wire and a white wire in the US, you should see anywhere between 110 and 128 volts - preferably 120 volts straight up. If you take those same probes and connect them between the black wire and the white wire in England (the color codes could be different - i've seen blue hots and yellow neutrals in the UK, and brown hots in France...) you'll see anywhere from say 225 to 250 volts.

Now - to address your "can't I just combine them?" statement: you don't "wire together" multiple 120v lines to make higher voltages - devices like clothes dryers (and motors and other things) that need 220 volts aren't expecting to see 1 phase with 220 volts, they're expecting to see TWO phases of 120volts each which they will electrically and/or electronically make use of in their own way which us typical DIY sparkys don't really need to get deeply into. If you're curious, if you take your multimeter from the paragraph above and go to your dryer plug and put the probes between the black and red wires (assuming it's wired correctly at your panel...) you'll see about 212 volts depending on your incoming voltage. When we talk about measurements of voltage like that, we can say "with respect to phase", or "phase to phase". The general math involved that we use in my line of work is "phase to phase voltage equals approximately 177% of the phase to neutral voltage". Have you ever heard someone say "that's a 208 outlet"? What they usually mean is that the outlet they're referring to has both residential phases present and a ground/neutral/bond of whatever sort is required to complete the circuit. Many people would find that their every day mid day "not too hot today, not too cold today" line voltage is about 117 or 118 volts at their outlets, and that gives us 118 volts * 1.77 = 208.86 volts.

There's LOTS of other science and math and variations involved that revolve around concepts like this - single or three phase? delta or "wild" legs, 277 volt service, 480 volt service, etcetera. Combined with the fact that electricity can a) burn things down or b) kill you, and you should understand why some people bristle at postings that don't so much ask how something can be done as propose what one wants to do and dare others to tell why it's not going to work. :D

Therefore, I think the answer to your question originally is "No, you can not thru any wiring means create a 240v *with respect to neutral" circuit in your home and you will need to add a transformer to raise the voltage at the device that requires 240v *with respect to neutral*".

If your device is NOT REQUIRING "240 volts with respect to neutral", then this is a whole different kettle of fish.

I can envision your post and this whole conversation going better (and not taking all the way until post #20 for the first mention of a step-up transformer...) if it had went something like this:

you: "I want to use these items from another country that say they're "240 volts" here in the US. Can I wire an outlet in my house to do that?"

others: "if the item says it requires 240volts then no you can't. You need to use a step-up transformer between the item and the wall outlet".

you: "but i'm not sure if it really needs 240 volts like it's going to be used in Europe, or if it needs 220 volts like our clothes dryers or central air conditioners here"

others: "you'd have to ask the manufacturer that question or read the manual and wiring instructions closely to determine that"

you: "Okay, I looked into it and it's a 240 volt item like would be used in the UK or parts of Europe"

others: "yup, you need a transformer in line".

That's my $00.02 for ya. Your voltage may vary. :D
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Old 06-21-2009, 08:03 PM   #39
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


gottem cheap!!
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:23 PM   #40
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


Simple and easy... You just need to buy " Voltage Converter" which comes with universal plugs.
A voltage converter can be used in 110 volt countries and 220 volt countries. It will convert from 220-240 volt to 110-120 volt AND from 110-120 volt to 220-240 volt.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:40 PM   #41
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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I bought a bunch of products from China.. Unfortunetly they are all for 220V. Is there something I can rewire inside the unit for it to use 120V?

The plug is a standard plug that will fit in our outlets.. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Tyler
Do you have 240v available ?

If not, you could use a small step up transdformer,
Power heads are low power devices so a small tranny would do !
Unlikely that there is an internal option for 120v !
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:56 PM   #42
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


sirius, check the dates of the posts you are replying to.
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Old 01-14-2014, 08:59 PM   #43
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


The OP is 5 years ago?! I feel silly, but there doesn't seem to be any way to delete this?


Last edited by Toller; 01-14-2014 at 10:27 PM.
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