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Old 06-20-2009, 08:28 PM   #16
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by nap View Post
there are several problems with this situation.

1. their 240 plug should not fit in our 120 volt recep

2. hooking up 240 volts to a 120 volt recep is against code and as such, illegal in most areas of the country.

3. asia and europe often use 50 hz frequency where we use 60 hz. That can make a difference with your devices and we know nothing really about them and as such, cannot recommend you use 60 hz freq.

4.you sound like you know very little about electricity and telling you how to kill yourself has never been a goal of mine.
1. Well.. It does?
2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.
3. Yes, I know this. Looking into how to resolve this issue as we speak.
4. I'm a fast learner, and very mechanically inclined. I can do this with no issue, if I was provided with instructions.

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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
You can most likely have 240v circuits and receptacles installed and change the plugs on the cords.

This is done quite frequently with European appliances.
I do know that.

Tyler

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Old 06-20-2009, 08:59 PM   #17
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.
Tyler
Are you serious ??? Running 240v on a 120 outlet?
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:03 PM   #18
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by hellfire View Post
2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.
I know you say you are trying to lean, but this statement is downright scary.

This just proves you have A LOT to learn.

Yes, a given load (in watts) would use more amps at 120v than at 240v. Thing is the load MUST be designed for the voltge supplied. You cannot simply connect a 120v load to a 240v source, or vice versa. Either way you'll fry what ever it is.
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Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:47 PM   #19
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by hellfire View Post
2. Explain to me how it would harm anything. As 120V systems use more amps then a 240V system would. 240V system would use half that in fact, so the wiring ran through my house for the 120V system would be more then enough.


Tyler
i told you why you do not do what you are suggesting in my second post. I do not tell people how to install systems contrary to NEC specs.

Now, there are ways to make it right but in response to your question, the answer I gave is correct.

I did a little research and China does not use a configuration that will plug into our 5-15R receptacles that I could find.

On top of everything else, we have no idea what kind of current draw this thing is either.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:14 PM   #20
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


Generally speaking, 220 volt 50 HZ devices will operate on 240 volt 60 HZ systems, with a few possible issues.

1) If there's an induction motor involved (washer, dryer, etc.), it'll run 20% faster. Current and heat-wise, the higher voltage and higher frequency will somewhat balance. I've connected quite a few 220 and 415 volt 50 HZ industrial motors to 208, 240, and 480 volt 60 HZ systems with very few problems.

2) If there's a universal motor involved (the kind with brushes, like a portable power tool, or kitchen appliance), it'll run about 5-10% faster. Current and heat will be slightly increased, but not to damaging levels. I have a bunch of 220 volt 50 HZ drills, saws, etc., that I run on 240 volts 60 HZ without problems.

3) If there's a transformer involved, frequency will make very little difference, but voltage of the output will rise by about 10%. Not a problem in most cases.

4) If there's a switching power supply involved (like a computer type), there's no difference at all.

The reason to not connect a standard receptacle to a non-standard voltage is because in your absence, there's an almost certain chance of someone plugging something standard into it, and destroying the device. Even if it were labelled, some nit-wit would likely figure 'Hey, it's 220, my (insert name of macho tool here) will be twice as strong now!! It actually will...... for about 1/2 a second!

There are receptacles and plugs available that are rated for 250 volts. They are the same physical size as the standard ones, but the prong configuration is different, so as to prevent sending the wrong voltage to anything. A 15 amp 250 volt receptacle and plug has the two power prongs horizontal instead of the standard vertical. They come in single or duplex, and fit standard boxes and use standard cover plates. When connected to a 15 amp two pole breaker, they're also completely code compliant. You'll most likely need to run a dedicated circuit from the panel though. Google nema 6-15 and look at some of the pictures, and you'll see the difference.

Another possibility, if the load is small enough, is a transformer to go from 120 to 240. If the load is more than a couple of amps, these get expensive though.

Rob

P.S. Like nap, Petey, and just about all the other pros, my advice is also based on code. It's not all that difficult to comply with, and it insures a reasonably safe installation.

Last edited by micromind; 06-20-2009 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Added P.S.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:15 PM   #21
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap11/electric.htm
If nothing else this link may provide some info on the differences
between USA and European voltages and Frequencies.
FYI, bill
BTW the search was " converting European appliances to USA "
http://www.starkelectronic.com/st500.htm has transformers

Last edited by woodnthings; 06-20-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:30 PM   #22
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by micromind View Post
Generally speaking, 220 volt 50 HZ devices will operate on 240 volt 60 HZ systems, with a few possible issues.

1) If there's an induction motor involved (washer, dryer, etc.), it'll run 20% faster. Current and heat-wise, the higher voltage and higher frequency will somewhat balance. I've connected quite a few 220 and 415 volt 50 HZ industrial motors to 208, 240, and 480 volt 60 HZ systems with very few problems.

2) If there's a universal motor involved (the kind with brushes, like a portable power tool, or kitchen appliance), it'll run about 5-10% faster. Current and heat will be slightly increased, but not to damaging levels. I have a bunch of 220 volt 50 HZ drills, saws, etc., that I run on 240 volts 60 HZ without problems.

3) If there's a transformer involved, frequency will make very little difference, but voltage of the output will rise by about 10%. Not a problem in most cases.

4) If there's a switching power supply involved (like a computer type), there's no difference at all.

The reason to not connect a standard receptacle to a non-standard voltage is because in your absence, there's an almost certain chance of someone plugging something standard into it, and destroying the device. Even if it were labelled, some nit-wit would likely figure 'Hey, it's 220, my (insert name of macho tool here) will be twice as strong now!! It actually will...... for about 1/2 a second!

There are receptacles and plugs available that are rated for 250 volts. They are the same physical size as the standard ones, but the prong configuration is different, so as to prevent sending the wrong voltage to anything. A 15 amp 250 volt receptacle and plug has the two power prongs horizontal instead of the standard vertical. They come in single or duplex, and fit standard boxes and use standard cover plates. When connected to a 15 amp two pole breaker, they're also completely code compliant. You'll most likely need to run a dedicated circuit from the panel though. Google nema 6-15 and look at some of the pictures, and you'll see the difference.

Another possibility, if the load is small enough, is a transformer to go from 120 to 240. If the load is more than a couple of amps, these get expensive though.

Rob

P.S. Like nap, Petey, and just about all the other pros, my advice is also based on code. It's not all that difficult to comply with, and it insures a reasonably safe installation.

Thank god! Finally a real answer.

I've been reading all day, and basically I want to do, what this little guy does.

http://www.millionbuy.com/phctc55u.html

The products I'm trying to get to work, say it consumes only 6w.

Now how can I, make this work? Please, someone answer properly, not just "Move to China, etc".

I'm not 13, I can make this work.

Also, despite everyones doubts, I plugged one in the standard socket, and it works. Just the motor spins uber slow. So it doesn't even do what it is supposed to do.

Now all I need to know, is how to provide 240V to the unit, so I can use it. The power outlet will be behind my fish tank, with GFCI, and I own my own home, so now worries about someone else plugging something in.

Thanks.
Tyler
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:39 PM   #23
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


Here is my main question holding me back.

Alright, a normal 240V appliance, has 3 plugs. 2 hot, and 1 Neutral, correct?

How do I, get 240V to only my 2 prong device?

Tyler
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:40 PM   #24
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


With a load of 6 watts, you'd be better off using a transformer. Try googling something like 120 to 240 voltage converters or something like that. If you can't find anything there, it's not hard to build one that small.

If the transformers (also known as converters) are rated in VA rather than watts, figure 1 watt = 1.2 VA.

Knowing the load helped a lot.

Rob
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:41 PM   #25
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by nap View Post
.what the dickens are you talking about? You are wrong, whatever it is.
OK, perhaps multi-phase is used in the US for res. service I can't say that it isn't. I can say that it is never, ever used here in Canada.
I have visited over 30 different US states and have never encountered multi-phase residential service in any of them.

If you think that I am wrong, it is incumbent on yourself to point out in what way I may be in error!
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:43 PM   #26
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


Sorry, I type pretty slow.

A 240 volt device in the US has two hots and a ground, no neutral. If your device has only two prongs, it's most likely double-insulated, and doesn't need a ground. Just the two hots. Some of my 220 volt power tools are like that, others need both hots and the ground.

Rob
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:51 PM   #27
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by micromind View Post
Sorry, I type pretty slow.

A 240 volt device in the US has two hots and a ground, no neutral. If your device has only two prongs, it's most likely double-insulated, and doesn't need a ground. Just the two hots. Some of my 220 volt power tools are like that, others need both hots and the ground.

Rob
Alright, thanks! I'll let you know if I blow it up or not.

Tyler
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Old 06-20-2009, 11:02 PM   #28
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


Ok, another quick question. How would I know if the device is double insulated? I understand the meaning of the term, but how would I know before I try it out?

Tyler
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Old 06-20-2009, 11:32 PM   #29
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


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Originally Posted by Wildie View Post
OK, perhaps multi-phase is used in the US for res. service I can't say that it isn't. I can say that it is never, ever used here in Canada.
I have visited over 30 different US states and have never encountered multi-phase residential service in any of them.

If you think that I am wrong, it is incumbent on yourself to point out in what way I may be in error!
You said this:

If you connect two in series and connect to 120 volts, you will have 60 volts applied to each one.
Not the scenerio that you are looking for.


in response to ( I am presuming since you did quote it) this:

Quote:
I know that american wiring has the two 120V sources 180 out of phase. But what exactly will happen if I connect the two, and run it to one prong, and the neutral to the other?


the OP was speaking of connecting both legs of his service to one terminal of the recep and the neutral to the other.

while you were technically correct in your series circuit scenario, you were wrong concerning anything the OP was suggesting.

Oh, and just FYI; there are multi-phase systems in some resi services but it is far from the norm.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:20 AM   #30
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Running 220v Electronics on 120V Outlet?


If exchanging the power supplies for the correct ones is not a feasible option, you might consider purchasing a STEP-UP Transformer of the Plug-in type. Provided that the frequency (50/60Hz.) and current draw are compatible.
some appliance stores might have those transformers!Don't Drink and Drive!!!

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