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Old 05-30-2013, 09:21 AM   #16
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Rough in electrical inspection for kitchen remodel


The DW (or, disposal) cable should be brought to the receptacle that it will attach to. Not sure if you can do this before the cabinets get in place, but I don't think the Inspector will pass it no being within the wall box.

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Old 05-30-2013, 09:25 AM   #17
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for the mot part they want to see the wires were they belong...

dishwashers and disopals are cord and plug now.. so you need a box mounted to land that wire in....
That is what I was thinking...

Awhile back we were talking about dishwashers (helping troubleshoot one) and when I mentioned that all the ones I had seen were plugged in...several sparky's responded that all the ones they did were hardwired...
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:39 AM   #18
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That is what I was thinking...

Awhile back we were talking about dishwashers (helping troubleshoot one) and when I mentioned that all the ones I had seen were plugged in...several sparky's responded that all the ones they did were hardwired...
My dishwasher (whirlpool WDT710PAY, not delivered yet) allows both direct wiring and power supply cord (need to purchased separately). My dad thinks direct wiring is more secure (costsaving too). I asked a contractor friend and he said most jobs he did were also direct wiring.

I just don't know how my inspector feels about this old wire coming directly out of a hole in the wall.
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:55 AM   #19
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Rough in electrical inspection for kitchen remodel


Here is the problem I have with direct wire....

1. Your typically using solid 12/2 wire...which does not like to be flexed a lot
2. Dishwashers are designed to be pulled in and out of their holes...at least 3-4 times in their life...maybe more
3. You have to open up the box to disconnect the wires if you want to pull it completely away

Why go through all that trouble?
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:34 AM   #20
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Rough in electrical inspection for kitchen remodel


You're removing a dishwasher 3-4 times? I'd venture most aren't pulled more than twice. One for the repairman to figure it out and the second time to connect a new one because fixing the old one was too expensive. That and with proper slack and effort it's not like the line is going to get twisted and crimped a lot. Same thing with opening the box to disconnect it, this is typically a single philips screw on the dishwasher and then just some wire nuts. Certainly not as 'easy' as just unplugging it from an outlet, but it hardly qualifies as "all that trouble".
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:40 AM   #21
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You're removing a dishwasher 3-4 times? I'd venture most aren't pulled more than twice. One for the repairman to figure it out and the second time to connect a new one because fixing the old one was too expensive. That and with proper slack and effort it's not like the line is going to get twisted and crimped a lot. Same thing with opening the box to disconnect it, this is typically a single philips screw on the dishwasher and then just some wire nuts. Certainly not as 'easy' as just unplugging it from an outlet, but it hardly qualifies as "all that trouble".
Mine has been out about 6 times....

A couple times while changing the flooring in the kitchen...

4 times to troubleshoot and then repair 2 different problems. Broken chopper and bad heating element.

A couple of times to clean under it...the kick plate does not keep everything out.

So...by having a cord and plug....I don't have to worry about turning off the breaker....I just unplug it. And...when I replace it...it's no more work to wire up a plug and cord as it is to hardwire......and I don't have to worry if I need to pull it out.
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:44 AM   #22
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Fair points, good to keep in mind.
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:17 PM   #23
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Rough in electrical inspection for kitchen remodel


It would have been better to just cut out the drywall, pull all new Romex for the boxes, and with a plan, then throwing something together hodge-podge. Doubt it will even pass first or second inspection. Would not be surprised if the inspector does not find other issues in the house, while visiting.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:07 PM   #24
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I would say that you should lengthen the conductors beyond the connectors. You want at least 6" of wire to work with. Just move the connector back about 1/4" so that there's a bit of cloth showing beyond the connector.
I think I will do this and hope for the best. Thank you! I'll update tomorrow after the inspection. :-)
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:04 PM   #25
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My bad!!! Old romex not BX. Still won't pass inspection.
Why won't it pass inspection?
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:12 PM   #26
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Here are my thoughts.

1. All devices need to be removed. They can still remain attached but I want to see the splices.
2. What gauge is the cable for the DW? What size is the ground wire.
3. If the ground wire is less than 12awg a new line has to be run.

Since you are remodeling an existing structure all the work falls under the ReHab Subcode. Do a google search or check out some of the links in my signature.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:33 PM   #27
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Why won't it pass inspection?
My guess would be if they made any changes to that branch circuit, by adding in newer 2 wire Romex with a ground wire, then it would be a flag.

Personally I would rather just start with all new plumbing and wiring, since you are going through all of this work to begin with. Plus pulling the Gypsum, gives you a chance to find any rot where the sink base sat, and put in insulation, or replace with older under-rated insulation that was installed, when the house was originally built.
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:04 PM   #28
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Rough in electrical inspection for kitchen remodel


Good point! I haven't worked on a kitchen sink area or DW that didn't have a water damaged floor yet.
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Old 05-31-2013, 05:14 PM   #29
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Rough in electrical inspection for kitchen remodel


Laying on the window sill doesn't cut it. I would want to see it stapled in the approximate location. Making it obvious as to what it's for takes all all the guess work out of the equation. And the less you make the inspector think the better.
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:01 PM   #30
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Rough in electrical inspection for kitchen remodel


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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
It would have been better to just cut out the drywall, pull all new Romex for the boxes, and with a plan, then throwing something together hodge-podge. Doubt it will even pass first or second inspection. Would not be surprised if the inspector does not find other issues in the house, while visiting.
Best advice Greg.

When I did my kitchen remodel I had it into the state of the OP and the electricians began working around/through existing plaster where cabinets would be. It quickly became obvious what a waste this was to save the 12" or so of exposed plaster between countertop and upper cabinets so I pulled it all down... best thing I could have done because it made wiring, plumbing much easier... I as also able to air seal and properly insulate the exterior wall.

From my kitchen remodel here is what I learned from my inspector:
1) They expected disposer and dishwasher to be on cords and plugged in under the sink

2) They expected the counter outlets to leapfrog... meaning two adjacent outlets should not be on the same circuit

3) OTR microwave must be by itself and on it's own 20A circuit with no other outlets. Microwave cord should come up through a strain relief or otherwise finished edge in the cabinet above (I used one of those plastic things like you'd see on a modular office desk)

With that older NM (romex) you may want to check the ground conductor size, I know that in BX there is ground which is grossly undersized vs. the current carrying conductors (and so it can't be used), I don't know if the fabric NM is the same or not? I've got some for a couple of circuits on my second floor... personally I'd replace as much as of it as you can while things are open.

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