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Old 01-19-2012, 11:10 AM   #1
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


Hi all,

I have a few final questions before I call out the inspector in Ontario, Canada for my rough-in wiring.

1) If I understand, I can staple the cables above the junction box and not have new breakers installed and cables connected, correct?

2) I am planning to re-use some existing breakers and newish (<15 years old) cable and join these in a junction box to the new run cable - do I wire nut all splices here and just have the breaker turned off, or...?

3) I have a few breakers that will not be used but the 60 year old cable isn't disconnected yet (don't want to turn off power during the week with my wife's home office), so can I have the breaker power off and terminate and cap these cables in a junction box for now?

4) We have a carport with a closet on the outside wall. I have run a wire to light this through the ceiling joists and into a junction box on the ceiling. I have run armored 14/2 romex cable down the wall surface mounted (there will be no wall covering) for a switch and across to a second light. Is this allowed, or am I supposed to use something different since it is in an outdoor carport? Worse case scenario I disconnect the switch wire and just make it turn on with the ceiling lights for the carport.

5) Finally last... This work was done previously and I'm sure without a permit, so is this allowed: unfinished area of the basement (furnace room) - standard 14/2 wire is run for plugs and switches normally along the wall studs - does this wire need to be protected in any way since it's not going to be covered by drywall or anything?

Thanks in advance for your assistance yet again!
Joe

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Old 01-19-2012, 11:23 AM   #2
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


I'm sure by the end of the day some real electritions will be replying.
I sure hope you meant romex with grounds not just 14/2.
In the US a basement or garage would need 12/2 with ground and GFI on the outlets.
Any bedrooms would need AFIC breakers.

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Old 01-19-2012, 02:07 PM   #3
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


Yeah, it has the ground wires, sorry that I didn't use the right term.


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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
I'm sure by the end of the day some real electritions will be replying.
I sure hope you meant romex with grounds not just 14/2.
In the US a basement or garage would need 12/2 with ground and GFI on the outlets.
Any bedrooms would need AFIC breakers.
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:19 PM   #4
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
I'm sure by the end of the day some real electritions will be replying.
I sure hope you meant romex with grounds not just 14/2.
In the US a basement or garage would need 12/2 with ground and GFI on the outlets.
Any bedrooms would need AFIC breakers.
What part of Us requires 12/2 and gfis in basements?
Normally an unfinished basement will have a gfi mounted under service panel as a convenience outlet.
You keep posting all these things,then you add some real electrician or real plumber will reply at some point.
If youre not sure about what a code requirement is save these people a lot of headaches and time redoing things by not acting like you know what youre talking about ,stick with things you know for sure
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:02 PM   #5
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


It's Canada so the NEC it not relevant.

From the ESA FAQ site

http://www.esasafe.com/faqs.htm

Quote:
Question
What is a "rough-in inspection" and when does it take place?
Answer

The rough-in inspection takes place when all branch circuit wiring and outlet boxes are installed and prior to any wiring being concealed by insulation, vapour barrier, drywall, etc.

As a minimum for the rough-in inspection the following shall be completed:

all cable and all outlet boxes shall be installed and supported as per the Code,
all bonding conductors shall be connected within all outlet boxes including provision of a bonding conductor for final connection to wiring devices such as receptacles,
all required joints in the wiring at all outlet boxes shall be made up including provision of pigtails where required for final connection to wiring devices, and
nail/screw protection plates shall be installed where required.

No wiring shall be concealed by installation of insulation or floor, wall, and ceiling materials until authorized by an electrical inspector.

For new installations the service inspection and the rough-in inspection are completed at the same time, or additional inspection fees may be applied.

Rule 2-004.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:04 PM   #6
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


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It's Canada so the NEC it not relevant.

From the ESA FAQ site

http://www.esasafe.com/faqs.htm
I realize that
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:06 PM   #7
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


I'm in VA and it's code in my county and my local inspector will jump your butt if it's not 12-2 in fact he has suggested many times that's all he want to see anymore in all outlets. There's been far to many fires around here from burned wires behind walls from space heaters.
14-2 for lighting is fine.
They also want to see arc fault on all new breakers in occuppied spaces.
Would my suggestion cause a safety hazzard? Would my suggestinon go above any local code min. requirements?
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:43 PM   #8
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


You need to tell people its a suggestion not an across the board code requirement.
He was talking about running 14/2 for a light in his closet off the side of his garage,i didnt notice him mentioning the word outlet with 14/2 anyplace in his post.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:56 PM   #9
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
I'm in VA and it's code in my county and my local inspector will jump your butt if it's not 12-2 in fact he has suggested many times that's all he want to see anymore in all outlets. There's been far to many fires around here from burned wires behind walls from space heaters.
14-2 for lighting is fine.
They also want to see arc fault on all new breakers in occuppied spaces.
Would my suggestion cause a safety hazzard? Would my suggestinon go above any local code min. requirements?
Unless he can provide a local code in writing, then I would install to the nec and be on my way.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:33 AM   #10
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


Quote:
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What part of Us requires 12/2 and gfis in basements?
Normally an unfinished basement will have a gfi mounted under service panel as a convenience outlet.
A GFCI next to the panel is required yes, for servicing the panel. All receptacles in an UNFINISHED basement must be GFCI per NEC:


210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
(A)Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles Installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.


(1-4 deleted to save space)

(5) Unfinished basements- for the purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like.


AFAIK 20AMP is not required in a basement, but I don't think I've installed a new 15amp circuit in over 15 years and wouldn't have noticed the code change requiring it.

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You keep posting all these things,then you add some real electrician or real plumber will reply at some point.
If youre not sure about what a code requirement is save these people a lot of headaches and time redoing things by not acting like you know what youre talking about ,stick with things you know for sure
Good advice.

-- Joe
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:38 AM   #11
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by joeh View Post
5) Finally last... This work was done previously and I'm sure without a permit, so is this allowed: unfinished area of the basement (furnace room) - standard 14/2 wire is run for plugs and switches normally along the wall studs - does this wire need to be protected in any way since it's not going to be covered by drywall or anything?

Thanks in advance for your assistance yet again!
Joe
NM must be protected within reach. If it passes through studs on a wall, it must be covered.

When you say "Along" the studs you make it sound like it was stapled to the outside face of the studs, which would be a no-no. In situations like this, I'd run a nailing plate at the top of the studs. (if the walls were not going to be drywalled).

If you can hang a drop light on it, lean on it, knock an appliance into it, etc it is not protected and would fail.

Normally when I do a rough in, ALL fixtures and circuits are completed and live. The inspector doesn't want to drive out more than twice (rough, final).

-- Joe
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:05 AM   #12
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by anesthes View Post
NM must be protected within reach. If it passes through studs on a wall, it must be covered.

When you say "Along" the studs you make it sound like it was stapled to the outside face of the studs, which would be a no-no. In situations like this, I'd run a nailing plate at the top of the studs. (if the walls were not going to be drywalled).

If you can hang a drop light on it, lean on it, knock an appliance into it, etc it is not protected and would fail.

Normally when I do a rough in, ALL fixtures and circuits are completed and live. The inspector doesn't want to drive out more than twice (rough, final).

-- Joe
Does canada require the romex to be protected in conduit?
Im not from canada and dont know anything about canadian codes,thats why i dididnt answer that part
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:32 AM   #13
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Rough Electrical Inspection - a few more questions


There is no reason to use 12/2 unless you need a 20 amp circuit. If you make a 20 amp circuit you MUST use 20 amp T slot receptacles in Canada.

12-518 states in part the cable used in exposed wiring shall be adequately protected from mechanical damage when run less than 1.5m above floor or where exposed to mechanical damage.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Does canada require the romex to be protected in conduit?
Im not from canada and dont know anything about canadian codes,thats why i dididnt answer that part
I'm not from Canada either, my basis is NEC and Mass/New Hampshire amendments.

Not protected by conduit, but by drywall, plywood, nailer plate, etc.

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Old 01-20-2012, 10:52 AM   #15
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Well thats pretty much anyplace you go in the states,i think Canada has their own electrical code though

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