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Old 07-22-2007, 09:13 PM   #1
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Rough-in Do's & Don'ts???


I'm rewiring my old house with all the plaster walls removed. I called our local permit office to ask about the rough-in inspection. As usual, I didn't get much of an answer. So, what needs to be in place or not for a rough-in inspection? Here is what I know so far.
  • Pull all wires to rec and light boxes
  • Staple all wires according to NEC
  • Pull all home runs back to panel
  • Wire panel with ground and neutral only
  • Wire up ground in rec and light boxes
Am I missing anything?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

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Old 07-23-2007, 07:20 AM   #2
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Rough-in Do's & Don'ts???


I'm not an electrician, and this is worth about what you're paying for it...so beware. FWIW, I did the wiring on my new house 2600 sqft, and it passed code first time through, and the ALL the circuits worked as intended when the house was powered up. That said...here it goes....
  • Make sure that if your switching a white wire used as a traveler, that its wrapped with black tape at the end.
  • Label your circuit box circuits.
  • Make a paper map of the circuits, laminate it an put it near the circuit box.
  • In any trouble spot that you have access to, take digital pictures if possible.
  • During the install keep a small pocket notebook handy and write down those things you need to come back to...don't try to remember them.
  • When making corners with your wire, don't make any sharp 90* bends. Our inspector really frowns on sharp bends and will make you bring slack to the area.
  • Watch your wire count in the box, if possible use the large wall boxes...it's a whole lot less frustrating to have extra space than trying to cram the wires in a small box.
  • In the kitchen, put the adjustable depth wall boxes so the face can be set flush with what ever back splash material you choose.
  • Use the correct size staples, our inspector didn't want 3/4" used on 12-2.
  • Don't staple more than 2 wires under one staple.
  • I know it's over kill, but seal the holes where wire goes into the attic or crawl space with expanding foam, for residential construction our inspector didn't require fire stop...but why not do it anyway?
  • For ceiling fixture boxes, put in the ceiling fan versions...you never know if it'll be used for a fan or large light down the road
  • For all ceiling boxes run a 3 conductor wire for the possible future ceiling fan control.
  • Make sure all metal boxes are grounded.
  • For new code, it's advised to have separate circuits for the fridge, microwave, dish washer, and garbage disposer. On the DW and GD, run a single 12-3 and share the neutral. I wouldn't do this for the MW and fridge.
  • For a 20 amp circuit that only has one outlet, use 20 amp outlets.
  • It's not advised to use the back stab connectors, some places allow it...others don't.
  • Some places require that outlets have pig tails rather than using the device to continue the circuit....use pig tails.
  • For open walls....make sure you have nail plates where required, and even where they aren't...it's not going to hurt.
  • Separate circuits in the kitchen and bath that are GFCI protected.
If you think it'll be a difficult inspection, it might be wise to hire an electrician to shadow you, or if you have a friend that knows something about wiring, have them over to take a look.

That's all I have to say about that.
Forrest Gump '94

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Old 07-23-2007, 07:26 AM   #3
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Rough-in Do's & Don'ts???


Thanks Rippy, that is some good information. I'm very confindent in my work, but I've never had to deal with an inspector - so I'm nervous about the whole thing.

Thanks again,
Dave
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:31 AM   #4
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Rough-in Do's & Don'ts???


Quote:
Originally Posted by diverdaveman View Post
... I've never had to deal with an inspector - so I'm nervous about the whole thing.

Thanks again,
Dave

By the way...a couple more things...

Don't forget the smoke detectors in this thread, and if the inspector pulls something out of his A$$ that doesn't look, or sound right....have him site the code and research it yourself. I had one in a previous house that was a real ----head, and wanted me to know he had power over me...and I finally had to pull this on him before he'd stop. If you have questions, don't be afraid to post...I like MANY others love to help out.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:05 AM   #5
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Rough-in Do's & Don'ts???


One more question:

I've installed two 2-inch schedule (can't remember the number) PVC between the attic and basement to pull my "home-run" pulls through. I've looked at the talbe but can't make any sense of it - How many 12/2 and/or 14/2 cables can be pulled through each pipe?

Thanks,
Dave
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:22 AM   #6
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Rough-in Do's & Don'ts???


I don't know...but you might step over to ContractorTalk.com and ask the question of mdshunk.

that reminds me though of another one from our inspector, he wanted the circuit wires coming in the circuit box to be distributed and not jambed into a piece of PVC. Potential heat build up.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diverdaveman View Post
One more question:

I've installed two 2-inch schedule (can't remember the number) PVC between the attic and basement to pull my "home-run" pulls through. I've looked at the talbe but can't make any sense of it - How many 12/2 and/or 14/2 cables can be pulled through each pipe?

Thanks,
Dave
Four. Anything more than 9 current carrying conductors and you have to reduce the breaker size or increase the wire size. Four 12/2 will give you eight conductors.
If the walls are open, don't use conduit just run the cable in the open cavity. Leave the conduit in place for future expansion when the walls are finished.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:12 AM   #8
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Four. Anything more than 9 current carrying conductors and you have to reduce the breaker size or increase the wire size. Four 12/2 will give you eight conductors.
If the walls are open, don't use conduit just run the cable in the open cavity. Leave the conduit in place for future expansion when the walls are finished.

Not sure you can even do that many. Review this thread over at JLC Online. This very issue was discussed there, and one of the final answers was no more than 4 12/2s in a conduit of 4".
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/s...=romex+conduit


The best approach, as you suggest, is use the wall cavity, not conduits.
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:45 PM   #9
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correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't 4 12-2's be 9 conductors...4 neutral, 4 hot, and the ground counts as 1, correct?
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Old 07-28-2007, 12:22 AM   #10
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correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't 4 12-2's be 9 conductors...4 neutral, 4 hot, and the ground counts as 1, correct?

Actually, the number of individual conductors isn't relevant when you're running romex through conduit. You go by cross sectional fill, and for more than 2 conductors that's limited to 40%. Flat romex has to be calculated as if it's round, using the full width as the diameter. This is according to sections 300.4(F) and 312.5(B) of the NEC. Hence the argument that 4 2-12s needs a 4" conduit. Househelpers comment was related to the 2" conduit diverdaveman installed.
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Old 07-28-2007, 12:27 PM   #11
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The number of conductors is irrelevent
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Old 07-28-2007, 08:41 PM   #12
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Rough-in Do's & Don'ts???


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correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't 4 12-2's be 9 conductors...4 neutral, 4 hot, and the ground counts as 1, correct?
Ground doesn't count when derating. Only current carrying conductors count. For CONDUIT fill, yes it would count.

Leave the conduit for future expantion - it's an EXCELLENT idea! One for 120 and 240 volts, second for lo-volt. Run any wires now in stud bays while the walls are open.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:02 PM   #13
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Actually, the number of individual conductors isn't relevant when you're running romex through conduit. You go by cross sectional fill, and for more than 2 conductors that's limited to 40%. Flat romex has to be calculated as if it's round, using the full width as the diameter. This is according to sections 300.4(F) and 312.5(B) of the NEC. Hence the argument that 4 2-12s needs a 4" conduit. Househelpers comment was related to the 2" conduit diverdaveman installed.
This is why I am a carpenter and not an electrician

But I'm pretty sure I must have has some past electricians did some framing for me a while back. They obviously miscalculated and used .7984% of the full width of the flat for their round calculation, multiplied by pi and divided by the square root of 7 raised to the fifth power. How the hell else could you erect a ten foot high wall that was 1 3/4 " out of plumb
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:38 PM   #14
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They obviously miscalculated and used .7984% of the full width of the flat for their round calculation, multiplied by pi and divided by the square root of 7 raised to the fifth power. How the hell else could you erect a ten foot high wall that was 1 3/4 " out of plumb
Reminds me of some engineers where I worked who, in justifying a project, used math on the order of: 22.013 multiplied by approximately 3, then divided by exactly 13.295, then multiplied by 4.8 rounded up and ending up with exactly 25.00000000!!
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Old 08-14-2007, 04:37 PM   #15
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that was good...question...do you keep your ceiling lighting branches separate from your outlet branches

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