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-   -   Romex in conduit? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/romex-conduit-35789/)

tommy potatoes 01-13-2009 07:31 AM

Romex in conduit?
 
I'm planning to put a pair of outlets in an existing wall, and I would expect to be using 12-2 romex and old work boxes when inside the wall. However, my local code requires conduit on any exposed surface (like in my basement).

The question is, can I install the conduit (1/2 inch emt) and just pull the romex all the way from the breaker to the boxes?

handyman78 01-13-2009 08:45 AM

To answer your question simply No- Romex cannot be installed between boxes in conduit. The local code references the conduit as protection for the cable where exposed but otherwise is not considered in use. Conduit used between boxes must have individual conductors pulled such as THHN or THWN.

tommy potatoes 01-13-2009 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handyman78 (Post 211895)
To answer your question simply No- Romex cannot be installed between boxes in conduit. The local code references the conduit as protection for the cable where exposed but otherwise is not considered in use. Conduit used between boxes must have individual conductors pulled such as THHN or THWN.

Well, if I pull THHN through the conduit and poke the end of that conduit up into the hole through the floor into the wall, (where the conduit will end, since this is an existing wall) where would I join the THHN to the Romex (to go to my new outlet boxes, since that will be inside the wall?

Gigs 01-13-2009 10:57 AM

You can go likely go romex the whole way and just sleeve the romex in the EMT where it's exposed in the basement. What handyman is saying is that if the EMT goes the entire way between the boxes then you should use individual wires.

petey_c 01-13-2009 11:17 AM

tommy potatoes, Is your basement finished? If not, why not just drill through the existing joists to the locations for the new outlets?

tommy potatoes 01-13-2009 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs (Post 211948)
You can go likely go romex the whole way and just sleeve the romex in the EMT where it's exposed in the basement. What handyman is saying is that if the EMT goes the entire way between the boxes then you should use individual wires.

Ah, Okeydokey then. That's kinda what I thought it could be. I just couldn't see the necessity of twisting all that THHN and romex together, since the conduit was only being used as a sleeve in the basement.

Thanx for the advice...

Gigs 01-13-2009 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy potatoes (Post 211967)
Ah, Okeydokey then. That's kinda what I thought it could be. I just couldn't see the necessity of twisting all that THHN and romex together, since the conduit was only being used as a sleeve in the basement.

Well, safest bet is to ask your inspector, because there is a lot of variation on what they want to see for this sort of thing.

Make sure you deburr the open ends of the EMT at a minimum, and preferably install an insulated bushing or fitting of some sort at the open end.

Conduit fill rules don't apply to sleeves, also.

Stubbie 01-13-2009 12:20 PM

Quote:

The question is, can I install the conduit (1/2 inch emt) and just pull the romex all the way from the breaker to the boxes?
You must consider conduit fill

The above description does not indicate sleeving. Sleeving would be individual drops from the basement ceiling to a switch or receptacle. But not running conduit from box to box in one continuous run. There is no code violation running romex (nm-b) in conduit provided it is a dry location and not consisered wet like underground. Multiconductor cables with 2 or more wires are treated as one wire by using the major diameter of the cable and converting to a circle, then calculating to square inches. The total cross sectional area of the cable or cables must not exceed 53% of the cross sectional area of the inside of 1/2" emt. Since cable varies an actual field measurement generally needs to be made unless you happen to know the diameter from the manufacturer. Yellow 12/2G from Southwire is 7/16 in. diameter. That is .1503 square inches cross sectional area treated as a circle. 53% of 1/2 emt is .1610 square inches. So you could have 1 cable of 12/2G in a 1/2" emt conduit.

Hope this helps

Gigs 01-13-2009 02:17 PM

Well I think he needs to clarify exactly what he wants to do then, since it seems there is still confusion. The way I understand it, he wants a short sleeve from his panel up to the joists and then go bare in the walls above.

Stubbie 01-13-2009 03:46 PM

I think after rereading he is wanting sleeves of conduit. I originally thought he wanted to do conduit all the way to his electrical boxes. So I would say your correct in what he needs to do.

Garasaki 01-13-2009 04:31 PM

So lets say I have several circuits leaving a subpanel and going to an adjacent room.

They pass thru a congested area of pipes and ductwork (to the adjacent room). In order to make installation easier as well as to provide a level of protection against freak pipe breaks, one installs 2" pvc conduit thru the area, then pulls several (say, 5 or 6) 12-2 romex wires thru it.

Conduit is open on both ends. No additional precautions req'd?

Stubbie 01-13-2009 04:48 PM

You need to derate the wires ampacity if the conduit is over 24" in length.

tommy potatoes 01-13-2009 05:15 PM

I'm going with 1/2 inch emt from my main circuit breaker box, fixing it in place as I go, across my basement ceiling, and over to a place beneath one of my kitchen walls, where I will drill a properly sized clearance hole through the basement ceiling, up into the wall cavity above. Once there, I will fish the romex either up or down, whichever works best, as the case might be, to a pair of outlets, which I intend to share on this 20 amp breaker. These outlets will be in a pair of shiny new old work boxes, mounted in the wall above and below a small countertop, powering a small fridge and an even smaller single cup coffee maker. The coffee maker is black and the fridge is stainless steel.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post to satisfy everyone's need for clarity...

This is a little like submitting stuff for UL2601, but I do appreciate all the feedback, guys.

chris75 01-13-2009 05:41 PM

I personally would just shoot a 2x6 to the ceiling and staple the wires to that.

Or go with this product...
http://www.arlreps.com/images/CableW...c%20sht_r4.jpg

http://www.arlreps.com/images/CableW...c%20sht_r4.jpg

handyman78 01-13-2009 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigs (Post 211948)
You can go likely go romex the whole way and just sleeve the romex in the EMT where it's exposed in the basement. What handyman is saying is that if the EMT goes the entire way between the boxes then you should use individual wires.

Correct Interpretation!


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