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Old 02-10-2013, 09:08 PM   #16
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Rewiring question- mid 60's home


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Originally Posted by gml218 View Post
There doesn't seem to be any corrosion on the buss bar just on a handful of the contact screws on the outside of the breaker where the wire connects.

Some case it may show a little but as long the termations ( screws ) are tight and clean it should be ok.

Did you read my original post on wanting to know if I could go in the attic and dedicate each room to its own breaker without ripping out the existing wiring? In your opinion do you think that's a possibility? I understand that I would bring in an electrician to hook everything up at the panel and I would probably need a new panel.

Ya can do that route but before you start that route verify the exsting wiring if have grounded conductor aka bare conductor or green conductor in the cable.

If so ya should be good to go but the issue what will happend is some case with new extened circuit you may end up put in a AFCI ( arc fault circuit inturpter ) breaker in depending on how how your state / local code is writeen for the code cycle ( note there are few variations so check with them to see what year the NEC / State code cycle they are using )

As far for the exsting panel I think it will be much wiser to install the new panel so you have a clean legit main breaker in there instead of spit buss panel which per modern codes it is no longer legit due it too easy to abuse the 6 throw rules ( will discuss on that in little bit later )


The issue with mapping everything out is the previous owner did things a little strange. I had to replace a burnt outlet in the laundry room (3 ft from where the panel is located) and when the threw the breaker that outlet was still live, I proceeded to continue with different breakers and finally the power cut when the threw the one for the attic. So this has been a learning experience everytime I have to mess with it.
Yeah I know what ya mean and it will take time to sort out the mess what the former owner left and some case it can be pain in butt.

However I did catch one pretty serious volitation right there is the conductors between the panel and time clock is A) flying splice which that is a major no-no. B) the conductor between the time clock and panel do not have any type of protection as I can see like no NM sheath or a short peice of conduit to protect it.

But I will advise ya if you see some thing that don't right just go ahead and post the photo we will tell ya what is legit ou pas.

Merci,
Marc

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Old 02-10-2013, 09:09 PM   #17
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Rewiring question- mid 60's home


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Originally Posted by gml218 View Post
Did you read my original post on wanting to know if I could go in the attic and dedicate each room to its own breaker without ripping out the existing wiring? In your opinion do you think that's a possibility?
It was rather universally suggested that you avoid this approach.
Leave everything that is in place exactly as it is.

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The issue with mapping everything out is the previous owner did things a little strange....
If anything needs repair then absolutely deal with that... but do so in ways that keep things as originally laid out. If you need help with determining where that line is drawn... then get that help.

As for the problems originally reported by you... by all means go ahead and ADD the 3 or 4 new circuits that the several bedroom air conditioners and the bathroom blow dryers would need.
But do this without interconnecting with or changing anything already there.

Last edited by TarheelTerp; 02-10-2013 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:13 PM   #18
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Rewiring question- mid 60's home


The biggest thing you will have to address soon is the bathroom circuit that is the first thing you will need to get that seperated.

The NEC code say that you can run one circuit for both bathroom receptales ONLY ., nothing else on this ., OR other option .,

Have each bathroom it own circuits so you can have light ahead of the GFCI's so that way if the GFCI trip the light stay on ( beside if the exhaust fan is above the bathtub foot print then it have to be on GFCI as well )

Be aware as I mention the bathroom have to be 20 amp circuit not 15 amp circuit ( only in USA side the Canada may be little diffent )

Merci,
Marc
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:18 PM   #19
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Rewiring question- mid 60's home


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Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
It was rather universally suggested that you avoid this approach.
Leave everything that is in place exactly as it is.

If anything needs repair then absolutely deal with that... but do so in ways that keep things as originally laid out. If you need help with determining where that line is drawn... then get that help.

As for the problems originally reported by you... by all means go ahead and ADD the 3 or 4 new circuits that the several bedroom air conditioners and the bathroom blow dryers would need.
But do this without interconnecting with or changing anything already there.
I make this part bold due THP is correct on this one and it will really save yourself alot of headahce and greif so that way in the orginal circuit it can be zigzaged or crossed connection and if you make the wrong connection it will compound the issue so do as THP mention first that I will done in first place then once you get that part done then you can expand more when you know how it goes.


Normally I do in reverse manner with crisscrossed circuits start at far end and work it way back so I know where is the source of oringal one is and kill it properly. ( it is not easy but that is the only way you can do this with criscrossed circuit or tube et knob < they are at it own game so that diffent subject >)

Merci,
Marc
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:55 PM   #20
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Rewiring question- mid 60's home


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Ok I have taken a pic with the cover off, there is a label in there but a crapload of wires are in front of it and I'm not messing with them. That being said there is nothing heavy on the bottom only 15, 20 and one 30 amp. The top however is a different story, they are as follows:
2- individual 60 amp to barn
1- double 40 to dryer
2- double 60 to main
1- double 50 to stove
1- double 20 to well pump
1- double 30 to swimming pool

You should definitely identify ALL your breakers and circuits, as even your top section may not be accurate.

Based on your photos, it appears to be a split-bus panel. That means from panel top to bottom your busses are not electrically continuous, which means they are separated into sections. Your panel appears to have 3 sections. The top-third section is your mains. There should be at most 6 breaker throws in this section; yours appears to have 7 (note the single-pole, untied, breakers upper right). The breakers in this top section are considered mains because flipping them all off must cut all power to everything in your entire home. This top section, however, remains energized. Only the physical removal of the meter will cut power to the busses in this section.

The middle-third group of breakers should be controlled and protected by one of the main breakers in the top section. Likewise, the bottom-third set of breakers should be protected by yet another main breaker in the top section. (See attached photo. Markup based upon how the wires from the respective mains appear to run within the panel. You must confirm.)

Based on your photo of the covered panel, the knock out patterns indicate that you should have available 5 spaces in the middle section and 1 space in the bottom section where additional circuits and breakers may be possibly installed (see attached). When deciding how many additional circuits and in which section to install, the load of that section must be determined and considered relative to the size/capacity of the main breaker/feeder wire that is protecting/feeding that bus section.


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Originally Posted by gml218 View Post
Stupid questions:

How many times can a breaker flip and still be safe?
Is there supposed to be any type of corrosion on the contacts of the breakers?

Thank you all so much for taking the time to help me.
Any corrosion would lead to greater resistance. Any resistance would lead to greater heat. And great heat would lead to fire.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:51 AM   #21
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Rewiring question- mid 60's home


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Originally Posted by gml218 View Post
...
Did you read my original post on wanting to know if I could go in the attic and dedicate each room to its own breaker without ripping out the existing wiring? In your opinion do you think that's a possibility?...
If you were a remodeling customer of mine, I would tell you that what you're asking for is in principle possible and legal and various flavors of it are common. A common scenario is the reconfiguration of some existing circuits during the addition of a bathroom with new circuits. Whether it can be done in your case, I can't say. Whether you should do it as a DIY project, definitely NOT. But your idea is perfectly sound, and you should talk to your electrician about whether it's possible in your case. Once reason it might not be possible for example, is that the existing circuits wind around in the walls rather than drop from the attic. Anyway, you can mention it to your electrician without feeling like you're suggesting something terrible.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:03 AM   #22
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Rewiring question- mid 60's home


What are those two single pole breakers on the top right of the "main disconnects" (the top section) feeding?

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