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-   -   Rewiring kitchen: planning help (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/rewiring-kitchen-planning-help-19458/)

bakerhouse 04-03-2008 02:35 PM

Rewiring kitchen: planning help
 
As we get ready to redo our kitchen, I want to plan out the electric. The kitchen will pretty much stay as it is layout-wise, it just time for an update from the old nasty one that came with the house.

After checking out the breaker box, it looks like this for the the current kitchen:

(1) 2Oamp:
- single outlet (non-gfi) for Dishwasher/Garbage Disposal

(1) 20amp:
- non-GFI outlet for stove/fridge
- single counter top GFI outlet on opposite counter wall
- 90% of wall outlets in our house (appox 7)

This doesn't sound ideal :no: Here's my new kitchen plan:
20 amp
- stove & fridge, 2 non-GFI outlets on same circuit.
15 amp
- new recessed lights
20 amp
- single outlet, dishwasher/garbage disposal (should/can this be a gfi?)
20 amp
- 4 Counter top GFI outlets, 2 floor non-gfi level outlets, same circuit

I'm not an expert, so please excuse and call me out on anything that sounds or is stupid.

Thanks.

joed 04-03-2008 02:53 PM

You need at least two separate 20 amp circuits for the counter receptacles only. Nothing else can be on these two circuits. I believe in US you need GFCI on these circuits.
I presume since fridge and stove are on one circuit that the stove is gas? In Canada friidge must be on dedicated circuit. Not sure in US.

bakerhouse 04-03-2008 03:06 PM

thanks for the reply. I must have deleted the "20amp" breaker I had planned for the GFI outlets, the original post has been edited to correct this.

If the GFI's must be on two 20amps and dedicated, that won't be an issue. I have an electrician friend who is offering to do my wiring (I'm paying him), but I'm having a hard time getting him to come by the house and look at things.

220/221 04-03-2008 04:11 PM

Quote:

20 amp
- stove & fridge, 2 non-GFI outlets on same circuit.
15 amp
- new recessed lights
20 amp
- single outlet, dishwasher/garbage disposal (should/can this be a gfi?)
20 amp
- 4 Counter top GFI outlets, 2 floor non-gfi level outlets, same circuit
DW/disp no GFCI required.

Small appliance branch circuits (2) are for the counter top outlets only.

If you are installing a built in micro, it needs a dedicated 20 amp circuit. If you are going to have a micro on the counter top I would run a circuit for it even though not required. Coffee maker+toaster+micro= tripped breaker.




Quote:

You need at least two separate 20 amp circuits for the counter receptacles only. Nothing else can be on these two circuits

The fridge can.......... but don't GFCI it.



Quote:

I have an electrician friend who is offering to do my wiring (I'm paying him), but I'm having a hard time getting him to come by the house and look at things.
He's probaby at home, dicking around on the internet :)

bakerhouse 04-03-2008 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joed (Post 113585)
You need at least two separate 20 amp circuits for the counter receptacles only. Nothing else can be on these two circuits. I believe in US you need GFCI on these circuits.
I presume since fridge and stove are on one circuit that the stove is gas? In Canada friidge must be on dedicated circuit. Not sure in US.

Joed,

Can you explain the "two separate 20 amp circuits for the counter receptacles" to me. I've seen this a few time in my reading and I want to make sure I understand it correctly. If I have 5 GFI outlets on the counters, do they get wired to 2 different breakers?

Thanks for your input.

EDIT: I think I have it now, a 20 amp double pole breaker for the GFI counter outlets.

joed 04-03-2008 08:55 PM

You don't normally use double poles. You simply use two separtae 20 amp circuits. It is required by code to have at least 2 separate 20 amp counter circuits. You can have more if you wish.

bakerhouse 04-04-2008 01:35 AM

Thanks again. I finally understand, I was "thinking" a bit too much today.

I forgot to include a couple things in my earlier post. Here's an update on what I'm looking at doing:

- 5 counter top GFI, 2 20amp branch
- Recessed lights (6) and Range Hood, 20 amp
- Elect. Oven, dedicated 20amp
- Under counter Microwave, dedicated 20amp
- Fridge, dedicated 20 amp
- Dishwasher/Garbage, 20amp
- 2 floor level general outlet, 20 amp

I'm concerned about space in my box. I need to check it in the morning to see how many spaces are avail. If anyone has any suggestions to reduce the number of breakers, please let me know. The 2 floor outlet on a breaker seems like a waste since I'll hardly ever use them.

CowboyAndy 04-04-2008 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakerhouse (Post 113722)
Thanks again. I finally understand, I was "thinking" a bit too much today.

I forgot to include a couple things in my earlier post. Here's an update on what I'm looking at doing:

- 5 counter top GFI, 2 20amp branch
- Recessed lights (6) and Range Hood, 20 amp
- Elect. Oven, dedicated 20amp
- Under counter Microwave, dedicated 20amp
- Fridge, dedicated 20 amp
- Dishwasher/Garbage, 20amp
- 2 floor level general outlet, 20 amp

I'm concerned about space in my box. I need to check it in the morning to see how many spaces are avail. If anyone has any suggestions to reduce the number of breakers, please let me know. The 2 floor outlet on a breaker seems like a waste since I'll hardly ever use them.

what kind of oven/range are you using? 20AMP seems a bit low, even for a cooktop or wall oven.

Make sure to double check the specs on the actual appliances you are going to use.

LawnGuyLandSparky 04-04-2008 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakerhouse (Post 113722)
Thanks again. I finally understand, I was "thinking" a bit too much today.

I forgot to include a couple things in my earlier post. Here's an update on what I'm looking at doing:

- 5 counter top GFI, 2 20amp branch

3 receptacles on one 20 circuit, 2 on the other. Only the 1st receptacle in the circuit needs to be GFCI, the downstream receptacles will be protected by the 1st.

Only you know for sure how you'll arrange your appliances in your new kitchen, but a general rule of thumb is that countertop appliances tend to gravitate towards the sink, therefore consider that the receptacles on either side of the sink are on different circuits.

Quote:

- Recessed lights (6) and Range Hood, 20 amp
Overkill. A 15a circuit is plenty for this.

Quote:

- Elect. Oven, dedicated 20amp
An electric range will require a minimum 40a 220 volt circuit. A gas range only requires a convenience receptacle.

Quote:

- Under counter Microwave, dedicated 20amp
- Fridge, dedicated 20 amp
Check out the nameplates on new refrigerators. Mine is 6.5 amps and that's a 36" wide, full depth, side-by side with ice & water. If you run a dedicated circuit for a fridge, it's ok to run 15 amps. New refrigerators use much less power overall.

Quote:

- Dishwasher/Garbage, 20amp
- 2 floor level general outlet, 20 amp

I'm concerned about space in my box. I need to check it in the morning to see how many spaces are avail. If anyone has any suggestions to reduce the number of breakers, please let me know. The 2 floor outlet on a breaker seems like a waste since I'll hardly ever use them.
The floor level outlets can be on the same circuit(s) as the countertop outlets. (If they're in the kitchen / dining / pantry / eat-in or similar areas)


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