Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-17-2010, 06:31 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Share |
Default

Rewire of old house


I recently purchased a house and have already started to gut all the old wiring. The guy who owned the house brought in new service and had an electrician install a 150 amp panel, but all they did was run new 12/2 w/g to a junction box and splice onto the old wiring. There was no labeling of the breakers and when you would shut off one breaker a ton of stuff would be affected.

So I went ahead and started running new wiring for all the outlets. Haven't gotten to the switches/lights/fans yet. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly. I work with electricians everyday but some seem leery to give out advice.

Basically I've decided to run all 3 bedrooms on their own circuits (receptacles wise). So I have a homerun 12/2 with ground running to the first outlet which then jumps to the next, and out of the box, runs to the last outlet. So basically I have three outlets with only two of them having two wires in it. I wired it up and in the box and everything seems to be working. (20 amp breaker installed, although I was just told it is code to use AFCI breakers now)

I then ran new wiring for the living room and dining room/kitchen. All of these outlets will be on the same circuit. There will be 6 of them. The one in the dining room will hardly be used, same with the kitchen. It's not near water and it's underneath the window and probably won't be used unless to vacuum or something. I did basically the same with a homerun 12/2. Jumping from box to box.

For the kitchen, I put up 4 GFCI outlets. The question I had is, can these be daisy chained? Just like the others I ran a homerun with a 12/2 with ground and jumped from box to box.

I've always installed outlets for the fridge/stove on the same circuit (the stove is a gas one). I ran a homerun for the dishwasher, one for the microwave, and one for the garbage disposal.

I'm just getting confused because some places show use a 12/3 for the GFCI outlets and if one of these outlets trip, I'm assuming all of them will as well. Is this a correct statement?

Breakingcustom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 06:36 AM   #2
Just call me Andrew
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 2,252
Default

Rewire of old house


Your disposal and dishwasher can share a circuit.

You need two separate dedicated 20 amp GFCI's on your counter.

In general, chaining one GFCI after another doesn't really provide any extra protection. Anything fed off the LOAD side of a gfci will be dead as soon as the gfci trips. So you don't need to to chain GFCI's after each other. But you do need multiple dedicated small-appliance GFCI-protected circuits on the kitchen counter.




__________________
Andrew

secutanudu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 06:44 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Default

Rewire of old house


Thanks for the quick reply. I was just reading about having to have two separate circuits for the outlets on the counter. This will be an easy fix since all the walls are still exposed.

Do you know for the bathroom if the lights have to be on the gfci protected outlet as well? I was planning on putting the vent fan which runs at 100cfm and the lights above the sink tied onto one of bedroom lighting. Or should they also be on their own circuit? The switch for the lights and vent fan won't be by the gfci outlet. THe gfci outlet will be right at the edge of the countertop for the vanity and the switch/vent fan outlet will be on the opposite wall.
Breakingcustom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 06:48 AM   #4
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,688
Default

Rewire of old house


You can tie the bath lights to another lighting circuit, or you can use the receptacle circuit in the bath to power the lights.
They do not have to be gfci protected.
The bath receptacle can only feed that bath and lights, or feed all bath receptacles only.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 06:48 AM   #5
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,785
Default

Rewire of old house


Using individual GFCI's on the countertop is perfectly acceptable though a little bit more costly. Separate home runs as you describe is also fine. The dining room receps should be on a 20 amp circuit that does not go to the living room. They could share a circuit from the kitchen and/or pantry.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 06:58 AM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Default

Rewire of old house


Only reason I put them on the same ones is because there is only two of them and they will never be used. Is this against code?

If so, I can also run a new homerun up into the attic.

I'm putting in 20 amp breakers for anything receptacles wise and 15 amp for lighting. Like I'm putting all the bedroom lighting on one circuit. Just one switch in either room that controls a fan and the light. Then I was going to put the kitchen and dining room lights on one circuit and the living room/hallway lights on another. Haven't decided yet about the lights on the outside of the house. There is only two of them, small ones that just require a 60W bulb.

The basement is going to have to wait because the guy who rewired the house only used 14/2 to do all the outlets and has like 9-10 outlets and all the lighting in the basement on the same circuit.
Breakingcustom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 07:36 AM   #7
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Blog Entries: 7
Default

Rewire of old house


Good Work! Sounds like you are trying to do things the right way. Electrical Forum is a good place to get frank but SUPER helpful advice.

You don't note your location in your profile - different locations have different requirements for electrical installations depending on whether they are under the NEC at all, NEC 2005 or NEC 2008.

Also you haven't mentioned whether or not your jurisdiction allows homeowners to pull their own electrical permits....?.... You should probably know whether or not you are allowed to do all this work.

And lastly, may I put in a word for going ahead and GETTING those permits. Aside from the many reasons you should do it it will also give you a double check that all your hard work was done correctly. Also, it gives you awesomness points and bragging rights.
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 09:15 AM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Default

Rewire of old house


I know you are required to pull permits to hook up outlets, switches, and to the panel. I believe you are able to do it by yourself. According to their sheet it says Homeowners are able to pull their own permits, but I've been told otherwise.

The one thing I don't want to pull a permit for is the use of arc fault breakers. The cheapest I've found them for is $37 a piece for a 20 amp one. In my opinion, if that's code, everyone who has breakers should have to change them to arc fault not just the people remodeling.
Breakingcustom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 09:27 AM   #9
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Blog Entries: 7
Default

Rewire of old house


Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingcustom View Post
I know you are required to pull permits to hook up outlets, switches, and to the panel. I believe you are able to do it by yourself. According to their sheet it says Homeowners are able to pull their own permits, but I've been told otherwise.
Your local regulatory agency will have the DEFINITIVE answer and before you turn another screw I would check for sure.

The one thing I don't want to pull a permit for is the use of arc fault breakers. The cheapest I've found them for is $37 a piece for a 20 amp one. In my opinion, if that's code, everyone who has breakers should have to change them to arc fault not just the people remodeling.
It is not up to you (or any other individual) to decide whether or not to pull a permit. It's up to the local regulation.

- My safety is worth a relative pittance. And IMO the protection AFCIs provide is priceless.
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 09:36 AM   #10
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,785
Default

Rewire of old house


Good luck with your insurance company if something disastrous happens and they find work done that was never permitted or inspected.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to brric For This Useful Post:
Leah Frances (03-17-2010)
Old 03-17-2010, 10:00 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Rewire of old house


Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingcustom View Post
The one thing I don't want to pull a permit for is the use of arc fault breakers. The cheapest I've found them for is $37 a piece for a 20 amp one. In my opinion, if that's code, everyone who has breakers should have to change them to arc fault not just the people remodeling.
That argument does not work
New code comes out every 3 years, this includes building codes
You can't expect everyone to rewire, add outlets, breakers or new devices
Should people be required to tear open walls & replace their windows to meet new energy codes?

When you renovate you are required to meet new codes.....that's the way it works
If you do not want to meet new codes, do not renovate
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 10:07 AM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Default

Rewire of old house


Just found out I get a discount at a local electrical supplier here. So the breakers won't be too bad. I'm basically following all the codes there is. I've gotten advice from multiple journey and master electricians on how I'm wiring things and I'm doing it properly. If you saw the disaster this house was in, what I'm doing is a godsend. And the old wiring was done by an electrical contractor. There are NO junction boxes in the attics for lights, everything is just wire nutted.

Plus, I'm having a licensed electrician to come back through after I'm done to make sure everything is done properly.

Last edited by Breakingcustom; 03-17-2010 at 10:19 AM.
Breakingcustom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 08:30 PM   #13
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Blog Entries: 7
Default

Rewire of old house


Breakingcustom - you said all the right things EXCEPT that your were going to get inspection and permits.


Road to hell and all that......
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 10:14 PM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Default

Rewire of old house


I honestly can't get permits. If they would come I would get socked with quite a fine because of other work I'm doing to the house. I had a HVAC company replace the furnace and central air. A plumber redo the vent and the returns and what not. Also, extended a wall and tore down drywall.

I think at this point, it wouldn't be worth it.
Breakingcustom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2010, 10:31 PM   #15
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Default

Rewire of old house


Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingcustom View Post
I honestly can't get permits. If they would come I would get socked with quite a fine because of other work I'm doing to the house. I had a HVAC company replace the furnace and central air. A plumber redo the vent and the returns and what not. Also, extended a wall and tore down drywall.

I think at this point, it wouldn't be worth it.
I hate to be rude in here but if you are not aware that the HVAC contractor and plummers do required to pull the permit when they working on other places.

Of course I am electrician by trade and I do pull permits to protect my rear end and customers as well and we have to follow the code and other regulations it will be required to be it.

And don't be suprised in case the inspector do show up due the other trades was in there and they will be inspecting the area.

And many inspectors are pretty good they will look what it realted to the permits and they can able spot something not in the scope like example your wiring what not related to the scope they can put in " stop work " order until it have proper permits pulled.

Merci,Marc

frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cape Cod Style House Attic/Crawl Space Insulation Help Danielg Insulation 24 05-21-2012 08:20 AM
Connecting main house to guest house... hlavine Building & Construction 31 03-28-2012 09:04 AM
replumbing an old house simonfrog Plumbing 7 01-30-2012 04:45 AM
Trane XR12 1.5 ton-Too small for my house? Badfish740 HVAC 7 09-23-2009 05:48 AM
Grounding for two service entrances to same house. jogr Electrical 18 09-24-2008 10:31 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.