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Old 11-21-2013, 04:50 AM   #16
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Residential grounding


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Originally Posted by redalice734 View Post
I own a 4000-sf home in Michigan. It used to be 2 units, but we're consolidating it into one.

My electrician is combining electrical service from two meters & panels to one. The water supply line is about 60 ft. from the electrical supply panel. He wants to install two separate grounding rods just outside the panel and then wants to run grounding cable across the basement to the water supply line as well.


I thought

a) it was one or the other, and


b) a residential system only needed one grounding rod anyhow.


This dude's been nickel and diming met to death and I'm pretty sure he's just looking for an extra day's work -- before I lose it on him, though, I figured I'd ask around.

It's standard electrical service, 200 amps, nothing special.

Any input is appreciated, thanks!
200 amp service gets #4 solid copper to the copper water pipe

AND

# 6 copper to the ground rod .


now wether or not you put in the 2nd ground rod depends on the inspector ... but that in minimal cost

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Old 11-21-2013, 05:58 AM   #17
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Residential grounding


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Time & material, he's been pretty good at ballparking materials costs and is on a per diem rate for a certain # of hours each day. Time over that on any particular day is at a different hourly rate.
This is a weird arrangement. Why not just cost per hour, period?
And if it's a long term T&M job WHY would he need to go over 8 hrs in a day?
Most guys only charge more than std rate for weekends and emergency calls.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:56 AM   #18
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Residential grounding


For the record a MINIMUM cost for testing an existing grounding electrode (ground rod) $980.00-Assuming there is sufficient space to perform the test.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:06 PM   #19
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Residential grounding


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For the record a MINIMUM cost for testing an existing grounding electrode (ground rod) $980.00-Assuming there is sufficient space to perform the test.
Price of ground rod, $12.10….
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:36 PM   #20
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Residential grounding


To throw in my two cents, also have your electrician add one of these for grounding Satellite, telephone, catv, Internet connection to the ground rod at the entrance, where the communications equipment should also enter the building. They also make a non-pvc fitting. The unit comes in both Zinc & Copper.

http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/gr...h-pvc-adapter/

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Old 11-21-2013, 05:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
To throw in my two cents, also have your electrician add one of these for grounding Satellite, telephone, catv, Internet connection to the ground rod at the entrance, where the communications equipment should also enter the building. They also make a non-pvc fitting.

http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/gr...h-pvc-adapter/

Even those these are required by newer codes, most utilities do not follow suite and they remain unused and useless…. just my 2 cents….


You can lead a horse to water, but getting him to drink it is a totally different story.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:04 PM   #22
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Residential grounding


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Price of ground rod, $12.10….
Exactly and that is why I would go broke if I attempted to do residential electrical testing.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:25 PM   #23
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Residential grounding


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
To throw in my two cents, also have your electrician add one of these for grounding Satellite, telephone, catv, Internet connection to the ground rod at the entrance, where the communications equipment should also enter the building. They also make a non-pvc fitting. The unit comes in both Zinc & Copper.

http://www.aifittings.com/catalog/gr...h-pvc-adapter/


As an aside, back in the early 60's I worked as a telephone installer in Connecticut. Most plumbing systems were iron or copper pipe. We were required to run a #12 ground wire to the closest pipe. If a ground rod was the grounding electrode, we drove a supplemental rod and bonded it to the primary rod with #6 copper. This was Bell System practice so I assume most of the country a the same.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:44 PM   #24
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As an aside, back in the early 60's I worked as a telephone installer in Connecticut. Most plumbing systems were iron or copper pipe. We were required to run a #12 ground wire to the closest pipe. If a ground rod was the grounding electrode, we drove a supplemental rod and bonded it to the primary rod with #6 copper. This was Bell System practice so I assume most of the country a the same.
As long as you were bonded to the homes electrical grounding system, you were good to go.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:20 AM   #25
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Residential grounding


Just curious but is he talking about driving 2 new ground rods and not using the old ground rods or in combination with them? If it is 2 new ground rods and not bonded to the old ground rods I would think the inspection would still be needed. If the old ground rods are no longer providing a good enough ground then adding 2 more ground rods would really be good, if he is replacing the old ground rods why and that would negate a previous inspection.

Generally having more ground rods is better but not necessarily needed.

Is he adding in a new meter and panel location or reusing one of the same locations?

Last edited by avengerki; 11-23-2013 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:41 AM   #26
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Residential grounding


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Just curious but is he talking about driving 2 new ground rods and not using the old ground rods or in combination with them? If it is 2 new ground rods and not bonded to the old ground rods I would think the inspection would still be needed. If the old ground rods are no longer providing a good enough ground then adding 2 more ground rods would really be good, if he is replacing the old ground rods why and that would negate a previous inspection.

Generally having more ground rods is better but not necessarily needed.

Is he adding in a new meter and panel location or reusing one of the same locations?
All the ground rods being used would need to be bonded together, And they are pretty much useless in my opinion, but such is life.
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:13 AM   #27
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Residential grounding


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All the ground rods being used would need to be bonded together, And they are pretty much useless in my opinion, but such is life.
I agree with the bonding part, that was why I was asking, and the more ground rods you have bonded together the better the ground will be. Being useless is far from true. Ever have a place with a bad ground and you can see all sorts of weird and bad things happen.
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:15 AM   #28
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Residential grounding


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Being useless is far from true. Ever have a place with a bad ground and you can see all sorts of weird and bad things happen.
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken, a grounding system serves no purpose in making an electrical system function.

You are thinking of a bad grounded conductor, which is not the same as a grounding conductor.
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Old 11-23-2013, 11:23 AM   #29
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Residential grounding


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I agree with the bonding part, that was why I was asking, and the more ground rods you have bonded together the better the ground will be.
This isn't always true, you could have 100 ground rods installed and not notice much change, or maybe you will, but this fact will always remain the same, not one person is ever going to pay anyone to find out….
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Old 11-23-2013, 01:20 PM   #30
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Residential grounding


While a ground is not needed for an electrical system to function, a ground is there to allow a safe transmission point for unwanted electrical energies. If there is no place for these energies to be dissipated it can lead to fires and electrical shocks.

Each grounding rod you add increases the area and conductivity to allow the dissipation of the energy. In order to be able to see the change you would need to use a megger to test the ground, this is what is done during those inspection. Generally the drier the climate the more grounding rods would be needed, or few spread out rods and more longer rods that go deeper in the ground. There is actually a fair amount of science that goes into grounding.

A ground on a house is also there to provide a path for lightning to be redirected along a safe path and prevent/minimize damage to a persons house.

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