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Old 04-05-2009, 10:34 PM   #1
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


My old outlet decided to melt out of nowhere and I am replacing it with a GFCI. The GFCI is correctly wired and now providing power to the room fine.

In this electrical box, there are 2 load cables which also have a red wire, which I believe previously were joined with a twist connector and then plugged into the old outlet. They were used to make the bottom outlet able to be turned off by a wall outlet.

My question is, where should they be plugged into on the GFCI? The line neutral, load neutral, or load hot?



Thanks


Last edited by Protonix; 04-06-2009 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:07 AM   #2
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


Again with the poor descriptions.

2 line cables witch also have a red wire???

Wouldn't that make them 3 line (wire) cables???

Anyway, you can't 1/2 switch a GFCI recep.

Your choice is to use the black(s) on the line side for a hot recep or the red(s) on the line side to have it switched.

If you want to protect the downstream receps, determine which cable comes in and put it on the line side and put the outgoing wires on the load side.

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Old 04-06-2009, 07:31 AM   #3
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


What 220 said about protecting the downstream receptacles will work, but not if you use any switched ones. If you do, the gfci will probably trip because of the current imbalance if a load is applied to the red wire.
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Old 04-06-2009, 07:43 AM   #4
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


Before I did anything I would try to find the MELTDOWN reason.

Something wired wrong?? Over current?? loose wires?? Bad connection?? Something plugged in that shouldn't have??

Most things just don't meltdown.
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:36 AM   #5
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


There are 2 load sets of 3 wire cables(each one of these sets has a red wire in addition to white and black), in addition to the main line coming into the box. One of these sets of cables may run directly into the wall switch, but I have not checked. The red wire's of these load cables were combined and ran into the old outlet, into a hole unmarked at that time period.

The meltdown was likely due to a faulty surge bar or being pulled out/put back in by a child.

Last edited by Protonix; 04-06-2009 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 04-06-2009, 07:29 PM   #6
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


The switch operates the red wires.

The blacks are hot all the tiime

Connect the reds togerher, push them back into the box and just use the blacks and whites on the line terminals.

One of the other receps in the room is probably 1/2 switched.
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Old 04-06-2009, 07:49 PM   #7
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


The red's are already connected(to each other but not the new outlet) and the lower switch does not turn off via the wall. The one across the room still does, though.

Last edited by Protonix; 04-06-2009 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:43 AM   #8
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


Anyone have an idea?
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:42 AM   #9
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


Since one outlet is switched, I would not protect the other outlets because it would trip on a load on the switched outlet.

I would twist the blacks together with a black pigtail and the whites together with a white pigtail, nut them, and connect to the line of the gfci. You wont get any protection downstream, but the switched outlet will work.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:21 PM   #10
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


Quote:
Anyone have an idea?

Uhhhh....what's the question??


Quote:
My question is, where should they be plugged into on the GFCI? The line neutral, load neutral, or load hot?

The original one has been answered.

Quote:
Connect the reds togerher, push them back into the box and just use the blacks and whites on the line terminals
edit: White = neutral, black = hot

Last edited by 220/221; 04-08-2009 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:35 PM   #11
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


This may help out:

Clarification of Terms:

OUTLET = A point of electrical utilization. (Where current is "consumed".)

SWITCH = A device to control the flow of electrical current.

PLUG = The male end portion of an electrical cord. ("A loose translation.")

RECEPTACLE = The female device to which a plug is inserted in order to receive electrical current.

Use of these proper terms may aid in obtaining the correct advices!!
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:06 PM   #12
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


Quote:
Originally Posted by rgsgww View Post
Since one outlet is switched, I would not protect the other outlets because it would trip on a load on the switched outlet.

I would twist the blacks together with a black pigtail and the whites together with a white pigtail, nut them, and connect to the line of the gfci. You wont get any protection downstream, but the switched outlet will work.
A GFCI trips when either the hot (black) or common (white) comes in contact with the ground wire.(which could be connected to a copper pipe)If your shaving and dip your hand in the water for some odd reason then it will trip regardless of whether or not what you have pluged in is grounded BUT a GFCI will NOT trip if you cross the hot and common wire. If you are on a dry floor you can still get shocked (if the breaker wasn't there). A GFCI won't trip when you have two hot wires and one ground. That's actually unsafe. You can overload the common. Nuff said.
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:02 PM   #13
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


The GFCI reads amperage on the hot and the neutral and compares the two.

It should be the same going back on the neutral as there is coming in on the hot.

If the neutral side reads less than the hot side, amperage is flowing somewhere instead of back on the neutral like it should be and the GFCI trips.
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:36 AM   #14
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Replacing outlet to new GFCI - Wall switch


Jeez, this one has my head spinning and shaking, while I'm saying ...huh??

You need to be able to state (or provide a picture, drawing, etc):

1) exactly what you have for wires, etc.
2) where the power is entering the box
3) exactly where the load cables go
4) exactly what you want to accomplish
and most importantly,

5) why the outlet "just melted out of nowhere"

If you can't provide the information, we can't provide the answers...

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