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Old 09-28-2010, 03:58 PM   #1
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


I know the wiring for the ground isn't there, but is it ok to replace the 2 slot outlets with ones with 2 slot + ground?

What are the pros/cons with this? I plan to run grounds eventually, but in the meantime, I would like to be able to plug power tools, vacuum cleaners etc in

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Old 09-28-2010, 04:05 PM   #2
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


Not allowed, but...

406.3(D)(3) Non–Grounding-Type Receptacles.
Where attachment to an equipment grounding conductor does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (D)(3)(a), (D)(3)(b), or (D)(3)(c).

(a) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another non–grounding-type receptacle(s).

(b) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter type of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.

(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground fault circuit interrupter shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding type receptacles.



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Old 09-28-2010, 06:50 PM   #3
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


so if I'm reading this correctly, I can do it with a gfci, but it must be labeled that it doesn't have an equipment ground

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Old 09-28-2010, 07:50 PM   #4
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


Yes, as illustrated in the diagram.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:00 PM   #5
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


I have dealt few older homes and I still get non grounded recetales from time to time to replace it and if I was fourced to replace with grouding receptale then I have to use the sticker saying no equiment ground that is only way it can meet the codes plus what Michael mention in the chart.

It is a clear cut of NEC codes but CEC { Canada Electrical Code } will have slighty diffrent modifaction to the NEC so if you are from Canada area check with the Canada electricians few will show up from time to time and they can give you the direct answer with it.

I am pretty sure it almost parallel with NEC code.

French Electrical code is pretty simauir to this but IT must have RCD { GFCI } breaker not the device per ECF.

Merci.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:01 PM   #6
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


And, under (a) above, you can replace it with another two slot receptacle, which can be had at Lowes for about 40 cents. Replacing an ungrounded two slot socket with a GFCI can be problematic, however. mostly because the old boxes are so small a GFCI will barely fit, if at all. I tried to put one in an old box and finally just gave up and put in a two slot replacement socket.

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Old 09-28-2010, 08:05 PM   #7
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


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Originally Posted by Bigplanz View Post
And, under (a) above, you can replace t with another two slot receptacle, which can be had at Lowes for about 40 cents. Replacing an ungrounded two slot socket with a GFCI can be problematic, however. mostly because the old boxes are so small a GFCI will barely fit, if at all. I tried to put one in an old box and finally just gave up and put in a two slot replacement socket.
I have ran into like that more than once that why I always keep a plan B ready if the customer do not like the ungrounded recepteale then I will have to use the RCD { GFCI } Breaker.

And put the sticker on it { that what drove few HO's nuts }

Merci.
Marc
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:11 PM   #8
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
I have ran into like that more than once that why I always keep a plan B ready if the customer do not like the ungrounded recepteale then I will have to use the RCD { GFCI } Breaker.

And put the sticker on it { that what drove few HO's nuts }

Merci.
Marc
The ones I replaced were in an old house we were renting. The old sockets were so worn and loose that a plug would just fall out. Since the only thing we plugged into them were lamps, a TV, DVD player, etc, which all were two prong plug devices, I figured it was better to have a new tight two slot than a loose, cracked one. Definitely go with a GFCI if it will fit, but it isn't that big of a deal to replace a two slot receptacle with another one.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:21 PM   #9
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


Yeah and IIRC they were about 3 Euros or so and just a might tough to find it but I know few big box store still have them in stock but the colour selction is pretty much limited typically three colour I know is brown , black and Ivory that it unless you snag a white verison { very rare to find it }

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Old 09-28-2010, 10:14 PM   #10
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Replacing old 2 slot outlets with 2 slot + ground


You can also run a separate ground wire from the receptacle(s) you want to replace back to the panel. It does not have to follow the same path as the other wires. Depending on your panel location and the ease of routing the wire this may be easier than stuffing a GFCI into a small box.

RST

P.S. Don't remember the code reference, if you search in the forum you should be able to find a discussion about this.

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