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Old 09-10-2012, 03:12 PM   #1
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


I was going to replace a chandalier in my home with this one:
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden...5/product.html

As you can see it takes halogen bulbs. Having replaced a few light switches, I know that there is no ground wire on this circuit. I thought I recalled reading somewhere that you shouldn't use halogen bulbs if no ground wire exists, but I couldn't find anything about this when I tried doing a subsequent Google search.

Am I mis-remembering, or should I not install this fixture?

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Old 09-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #2
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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Originally Posted by panorama View Post
I was going to replace a chandalier in my home with this one:
http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden...5/product.html

As you can see it takes halogen bulbs. Having replaced a few light switches, I know that there is no ground wire on this circuit. I thought I recalled reading somewhere that you shouldn't use halogen bulbs if no ground wire exists, but I couldn't find anything about this when I tried doing a subsequent Google search.

Am I mis-remembering, or should I not install this fixture?
GFCI protect the circuit...That is all that is required.

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Old 09-11-2012, 06:06 AM   #3
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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GFCI protect the circuit...That is all that is required.
Required by who?
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:31 AM   #4
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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Required by who?


The NEC..
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:26 AM   #5
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


How old is this home? Is it Armored cable or EMT going to each fixture in the wall/ceiling? Just because you do not see it, does not mean that it is not there. As for the GFCI comment, unneeded in your circumstance.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:52 AM   #6
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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How old is this home? Is it Armored cable or EMT going to each fixture in the wall/ceiling? Just because you do not see it, does not mean that it is not there. As for the GFCI comment, unneeded in your circumstance.

The home was built in 1965. I haven't removed any fixtures yet, so I'll have to check later this evening and report back.

Thanks
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:48 AM   #7
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


You do not have to remove any fixtures, just go to the main panel and pull the door panel. You can see if there is any grounds attached, if Romex. If EMT or Armored, it will be right in front of you.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:07 PM   #8
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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The NEC..
Can you please give me an article number?
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:28 PM   #9
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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Can you please give me an article number?


410.18 (B) Exception No.2

Last edited by stickboy1375; 09-11-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:30 PM   #10
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
How old is this home? Is it Armored cable or EMT going to each fixture in the wall/ceiling? Just because you do not see it, does not mean that it is not there. As for the GFCI comment, unneeded in your circumstance.
Greg, if he wants to replace the existing fixture to an existing outlet that does not contain a grounding means, then his only choice is to supply that circuit with GFCI protection.


I'm of course assuming he knows for a fact that one does not exist.

Last edited by stickboy1375; 09-11-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:31 PM   #11
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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Can you please give me an article number?
I would also like to know where he is citing this from. Just looked at the NEC 2011 edition, and there is no article cited in 410.18. Boy I love when people pull stuff out where they sit, and then cite imaginary articles, that none of the rest of us can find.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:17 PM   #12
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


Ok, I purchased a GFCI breaker today, but haven't installed it yet.

I see that there's some debate as to whether or not this is required by code, but even if it isn't required, will this be an acceptable/safe solution?

It struck me that the fixture will be on the same circuit as a bathroom receptacle that I've got to replace with a GFCI one anyway, so I may as well just change the breaker. Right?

I had a bunch of other things to take care of this evening, so I didn't have a chance to check out the panel.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:41 PM   #13
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
I would also like to know where he is citing this from. Just looked at the NEC 2011 edition, and there is no article cited in 410.18. Boy I love when people pull stuff out where they sit, and then cite imaginary articles, that none of the rest of us can find.
Why you even own a codebook is beyond me....

Since you are to handicapped to look stuff up yourself, it's section 410.44 Exception no. 3 in the 2011....

Last edited by stickboy1375; 09-11-2012 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:44 PM   #14
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


Quote:
Originally Posted by panorama View Post
Ok, I purchased a GFCI breaker today, but haven't installed it yet.

I see that there's some debate as to whether or not this is required by code, but even if it isn't required, will this be an acceptable/safe solution?

It struck me that the fixture will be on the same circuit as a bathroom receptacle that I've got to replace with a GFCI one anyway, so I may as well just change the breaker. Right?

I had a bunch of other things to take care of this evening, so I didn't have a chance to check out the panel.
Look, if the outlet box truly doesn't contain a grounding means, then supplying GFCI protection is the next best thing, and is allowed by code.

As mentioned earlier, your existing wiring method may qualify as the grounding conductor.

Last edited by stickboy1375; 09-11-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:19 AM   #15
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Replacing Light Fixture with No Ground Wire in Home


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410.18 (B) Exception No.2
Thanx for the reply I don't recall ever seeing that exception and that's why I was wondering.

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