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Old 01-14-2012, 09:57 AM   #1
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replaced timer switch


I took off the old timer switch and marked all the wires and put on the new switch and wired them and it does not work. My old switch had 5 outlets and the new one has four. It is 240 vac switch. I need help. thanks

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Old 01-23-2012, 02:50 PM   #2
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Replacing them is not hard, doing it correctly is.

Many who replace them do not wrap the wiring around the screws on the switch or receptacle correctly. They typically leave to much insulation on the wire or not enough on it.

Many too, do not use the correct receptacles or switches.

People typically do not replace bedroom receptacles with arc fault protected receptacles. Sometimes people often replace all receptacles around areas with water as gfci when only the first one in the series needs to be gfci. That is just as equally bad.

note: Way around that confusion is to just use a gfci breaker in areas where there is water and a regular non-gfci receptacles. In bedrooms, just use an arc fault breaker and regular receptacles.

And some people often do not use grounded switches when they are needed. If there are metal switch box, metal studs, or its a mobile home then the switch should be the type with a grounding screw.

All switches and receptacles too, should be UL rated and AL/CU rated. If not, then there is a chance of a fire.


Last edited by jasin; 01-24-2012 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jasin View Post
Replacing them is not hard, doing it correctly is.
How true!



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Originally Posted by jasin View Post
People typically do not replace bedroom receptacles with arc fault receptacles.
There is NO such thing as an arc fault receptacle device. In fact, if there was, the way the code is written they would not be complaint under the arc fault requirements.



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Originally Posted by jasin View Post
Sometimes people often replace all receptacles around areas with water as gfci when only the first one in the series needs to be gfci. That is just as equally bad.
It is not bad to have all GFI receptacles, just wasteful. In some ways all GFI receptacles can be helpful.



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If there are metal switch box, metal studs, or its a mobile home then the switch should be the type with a grounding screw.
Umm, not true. If the box is metallic, and grounded properly, then the switch does NOT need a grounding screw or tail.
What do metal studs and mobile homes have to do with it? I am curious.



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All switches and receptacles too, should be UL rated and AL/CU rated. If not, then there is a chance of a fire.
Not at all true, unless the wiring is AL. In that case the devices must be marked AL/CU in order to terminate the AL conductor directly to the device.


There is quite a lot of misinformation in your post. May I ask what your relation to the electrical profession is?
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:21 PM   #4
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How true!



There is NO such thing as an arc fault receptacle device. In fact, if there was, the way the code is written they would not be complaint under the arc fault requirements.



It is not bad to have all GFI receptacles, just wasteful. In some ways all GFI receptacles can be helpful.



Umm, not true. If the box is metallic, and grounded properly, then the switch does NOT need a grounding screw or tail.
What do metal studs and mobile homes have to do with it? I am curious.



Not at all true, unless the wiring is AL. In that case the devices must be marked AL/CU in order to terminate the AL conductor directly to the device.


There is quite a lot of misinformation in your post. May I ask what your relation to the electrical profession is?
Okay, let me clarify.

I said, "arc fault protected receptacles" not arc fault receptacles. I also said, "In bedrooms, just use an arc fault breaker and regular receptacles." So you read what I typed wrong.

Its not wasteful to have gfci where there is water.. its a code requirement. Within 6' of water it is required.

NEC 210.8 covers where gfci are required.

Now, having all in the series gfci. Only the first one in the line needs to be gfci as that one physically protects all the others. You never connect a gfci to a gfci.

http://www.wireityourself.com/gfci_e...al_outlet.html

This is inline too, with NEC 210.8(A) & (b) 1-8 & 1-3. It says they shall all be "protected" does not say they all physically need to be gfci.

As for grounding switches or switches with a grounding screw.

Switches in boxes with a metal faceplate, in a metal box that has NM cabling coming in, etc. These are required to have a grounding conductor going to them.

This is required by NEC 404.9(B) which says, "snap switches shall be connected to an equipment-grounding conductor"

And for AL/CU ratings. Running an Aluminum wire to a receptacle not rated for aluminum is a potential fire hazard. This is because of fretting. Please look up fretting.

Last edited by jasin; 01-24-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasin View Post
I said, "arc fault protected receptacles" not arc fault receptacles. So you read what I typed wrong.
How about you read what I quoted you as writing.
You edited your post nine hours after I replied.



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Its not wasteful to have gfci where there is water.. its a code requirement. I believe within 6' of water it is required. That may have been changed with the latest NEC though. My NEC book is from 1996 so I can not say.
You believe? Well, the 6' rule in kitchens has been gone before the '96NEC. The only other one left is laundry and bar sinks. Most other areas that require GFI's have no distance rule.
I also did NOT say having GFI's is wasteful. I said having ALL GFI devices was wasteful.
**Since you edited again, please not the 6' rule does NOT apply to kitchens as I mentioned.



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NEC 210.8 covers where gfci are required.
Got it. Thanks. I have code books going back many years, and I read them.



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As for grounding switches or switches with a grounding screw.

Switches in boxes with a metal faceplate or in a metal box that has NM cabling coming in ... These are required to have a grounding conductor going to them.

This is required by NEC 404.9(B) which says, "snap switches shall be connected to an equipment-grounding conductor"
Um......yeah, the box IS the equipment grounding conductor. You stopped reading too soon.

404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches.

(A) Faceplates.
Faceplates provided for snap switches mounted in boxes and other enclosures shall be installed so as to completely cover the opening and, where the switch is flush mounted, seat against the finished surface.

(B) Grounding. Snap switches, including dimmer and similar control switches, shall be connected to an equipment grounding conductor and shall provide a means to connect metal faceplates to the equipment grounding conductor, whether or not a metal faceplate is installed. Snap switches shall be considered to be part of an effective ground-fault current path if either of the following conditions is met:

(1) The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal box or metal cover that is connected to an equipment grounding conductor or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for connecting to an equipment grounding conductor.

(2) An equipment grounding conductor or equipment bonding jumper is connected to an equipment grounding termination of the snap switch.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:34 PM   #6
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When will they learn not to challenge Snoopy? Who cares...it is great fun!
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
How about you read what I quoted you as writing.
You edited your post nine hours after I replied.



You believe? Well, the 6' rule in kitchens has been gone before the '96NEC. The only other one left is laundry and bar sinks. Most other areas that require GFI's have no distance rule.
I also did NOT say having GFI's is wasteful. I said having ALL GFI devices was wasteful.
**Since you edited again, please not the 6' rule does NOT apply to kitchens as I mentioned.



Got it. Thanks. I have code books going back many years, and I read them.



Um......yeah, the box IS the equipment grounding conductor. You stopped reading too soon.

404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches.

(A) Faceplates.
Faceplates provided for snap switches mounted in boxes and other enclosures shall be installed so as to completely cover the opening and, where the switch is flush mounted, seat against the finished surface.

(B) Grounding. Snap switches, including dimmer and similar control switches, shall be connected to an equipment grounding conductor and shall provide a means to connect metal faceplates to the equipment grounding conductor, whether or not a metal faceplate is installed. Snap switches shall be considered to be part of an effective ground-fault current path if either of the following conditions is met:

(1) The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal box or metal cover that is connected to an equipment grounding conductor or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for connecting to an equipment grounding conductor.

(2) An equipment grounding conductor or equipment bonding jumper is connected to an equipment grounding termination of the snap switch.

Why are switches grounded?
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Old 01-24-2012, 10:58 PM   #8
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When will they learn not to challenge Snoopy? Who cares...it is great fun!
He did not address 404.9(B) he just posted all of 404.9 and said I did not read it. This site here specifically addresses 404.9(b) and the exceptions http://www.ecmag.com/?fa=article&articleID=9507


Last edited by jasin; 01-24-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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