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-   -   Repairing broken wire (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/repairing-broken-wire-69407/)

secutanudu 04-19-2010 08:10 PM

Repairing broken wire
 
So the guys working on my bathroom accidentally tore a romex that feeds my entire upstairs. the wire goes up into the ceiling and I can't trace it from there. The spot that was cut is near the area where i intend to put my GFCI outlet for the downstairs bathroom, which will be on it's own dedicated 20A circuit.

If the part of the broken wire that leads to the ceiling reaches the GFCI box I am putting in, can I splice the upstairs circuit back together inside that box? The GFCI will be the only thing in that box. Box fill shouldn't be a problem. I can have two circuits in that box, right?

If the wire doesn't reach my GFCI box, I don't know what to do. Is there any legal way to splice inside a wall without a box? I was thinking something along the lines of an irreversible connection that would be crimped on. I had one of those put on my neutral feed from the meter to the box to extend it (didn't quite reach the location of this panel) and this was approved by the inspector.

I really don't want a blank cover plate on the wall - it would look bad in the new bathroom, and I'm afraid snaking a new wire upstairs would mean a lot of tearing down walls. I could possibly put it behind the mirror, but that would prevent the future installation of a medicine cabinet. Any advice? Thanks.

AllanJ 04-19-2010 08:16 PM

No you may not have a splice except inside a box with an exposed cover.

If you can trace the damaged cable a little ways each way, you can put in two boxes, one on each side of the damaged location, and in less conspicuous locations. Then splice in a length of new cable past the inconvenient location to replace the damaged section.

Some models of medicine chests can have a rectangular hole cut in the back to fit over a junction box in the wall behind and then you add a cover.

voltech 04-19-2010 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secutanudu (Post 430831)
So the guys working on my bathroom accidentally tore a romex that feeds my entire upstairs. the wire goes up into the ceiling and I can't trace it from there. The spot that was cut is near the area where i intend to put my GFCI outlet for the downstairs bathroom, which will be on it's own dedicated 20A circuit.

If the part of the broken wire that leads to the ceiling reaches the GFCI box I am putting in, can I splice the upstairs circuit back together inside that box? The GFCI will be the only thing in that box. Box fill shouldn't be a problem. I can have two circuits in that box, right?

If the wire doesn't reach my GFCI box, I don't know what to do. Is there any legal way to splice inside a wall without a box? I was thinking something along the lines of an irreversible connection that would be crimped on. I had one of those put on my neutral feed from the meter to the box to extend it (didn't quite reach the location of this panel) and this was approved by the inspector.

I really don't want a blank cover plate on the wall - it would look bad in the new bathroom, and I'm afraid snaking a new wire upstairs would mean a lot of tearing down walls. I could possibly put it behind the mirror, but that would prevent the future installation of a medicine cabinet. Any advice? Thanks.

It has to be accessible in a J-box. If you can find the line in the attic, Set a box there and run a longer line down to the GFI box. Whats behind the area what you could put a J box? Maybe put it on the other side of the wall if that will work. Just dont "hide" a joint in the wall

Scuba_Dave 04-19-2010 08:28 PM

Don't they have insurance ?
If so that should cover repairs

If its a big box you would be OK, GFCI's take up a lot of room
Is there a basement ?

secutanudu 04-19-2010 08:59 PM

I am basically doing the bathroom with the help of a guy I know and his son. They are not licensed contractors (license is not required in my town), so fixing it is on us. I did pull a permit and will have the entire project inspected. I have easy basement access to this wire, and the wall where the break is in is wide open.. Problem is the cut in the wire might be a bit higher than I want the GFCI. How high above the bathroom countertop should an outlet be placed?

Scuba_Dave 04-19-2010 09:13 PM

There isn't any specific height above the counter required in a bath
Mine are located about 7" above the bathroom counter

Is splicing in a light box an option?
Or adding a box for the junction & installing a sconce for more light ?
Just some other thoughts

secutanudu 04-19-2010 10:38 PM

A sconce wouldn't really work in that spot. I am thinking the best options right now are:

1) splicing in the GFCI box, if it reaches
2) blank cover plate behind mirror or on the other side of the wall in the kitchen.

I'm surprised they don't allow an irreversible connection in the wall. My inspector told me it's the only way to extend the neutral wire from the meter without running a new longer one. The only way to get it off is to cut it. If that's the case...it's just as good as wire, right? I guess it still wouldn't be protected by the outer jacket that romex has on it. Oh well.

secutanudu 04-19-2010 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanJ (Post 430833)
Some models of medicine chests can have a rectangular hole cut in the back to fit over a junction box in the wall behind and then you add a cover.

I guess if I ever do decide to put in a medicine chest, I can always just cut a hole in the back it. Maybe the best option is to just hide it behind the mirror. I don't ever plan to use a medicine chest anyway. I'll know the stupid cover is there though, and even that will annoy me :)

acerunner 04-19-2010 11:27 PM

if box fill is an issue. you can use a double gang box, and block off one side of the double gang plate since you will only need one side. That won't look as bad as a blank plate in the middle ofthe wall.

secutanudu 04-20-2010 06:00 AM

I think I woke up at 4AM with the answer. I assume inside a kitchen cabinet is a safe place for this junction box, right? Not sure why I didn't think to stick it in there yesterday. I will just put it on the other side of the wall (thanks Voltech!) on the side of my cabinet that is up against that wall, and have the cover plate visible inside the cabinet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acerunner (Post 430908)
if box fill is an issue. you can use a double gang box, and block off one side of the double gang plate since you will only need one side. That won't look as bad as a blank plate in the middle ofthe wall.

Just for future reference, is this idea up to code? I guess you'd need to recess the box back a little more then use a box extender to bring the visible side to the finished drywall edge?

Thanks everyone.

AllanJ 04-20-2010 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secutanudu (Post 430943)
Just for future reference, is this idea up to code? I guess you'd need to recess the box back a little more then use a box extender to bring the visible side to the finished drywall edge?e.

A box extender is probably the easiest fix if there is a gap between the cover (on the cabinet back) and the box (in the wall behind). Alternatively the rectangular hole in the cabinet back can be larger so the cover can go directly on the wall.

secutanudu 04-20-2010 08:05 AM

Oh, that shouldn't be a problem. What I was asking was...is it code to cover half of a 2-gang box with drywall, leaving the other side exposed with a single gang plate.

Scuba_Dave 04-20-2010 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secutanudu (Post 430969)
Oh, that shouldn't be a problem. What I was asking was...is it code to cover half of a 2-gang box with drywall, leaving the other side exposed with a single gang plate.

No, its not code
They do have a new box out with more room on one side that will end up behind the sheetrock

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA200_.jpg

Also read thsi thread - KBsparky just posted this link
I've always been under the impression that all splices must be in an accessble box

http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/elec-...o-short-69425/

secutanudu 04-20-2010 09:40 AM

Wow - those look interesting. It was what I had in mind, but I wonder if most inspectors would accept it. Also - not sure where to get them.

Those boxes that slide behind the wall are shallow, at least the ones I saw at lowes. They have less capacity than a heavy duty single-gang. I am sure they make deeper versions that gives more space.

acerunner 04-20-2010 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secutanudu (Post 430943)

Just for future reference, is this idea up to code? I guess you'd need to recess the box back a little more then use a box extender to bring the visible side to the finished drywall edge?

Thanks everyone.

No, thats not what i meant. You wouldn't be covering it with drywall. Use a double gang box, half would be use for your existing recept, other half for extra space to splice your broken wire. Mount the box like usuall (not recessed). Use a double gang cover plate You can use one that's meant for double gang switch & receptable. Cover the switch hole with a small piece of plastic. If there exists a double gang plate that's blank on one side, and recept on the other, that would be even better.


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