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Old 12-01-2010, 03:13 PM   #16
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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Originally Posted by VersaBar
Please read the thread before instructing someone to do something so dangerous. These wires will still be used for the lighting.

On another note, even if you were to abandon the wiring, what you propose is very dangerous. What if the breaker doesn't trip (which is definitely known to happen)? What if the homeowner just energized a dead short in their attic? That makes for a nice heating element waiting to burn their house down. I would MUCH rather have a capped off "stray line in the ceiling with voltage".
So let me ask you one thing. If a breaker doesn't pop on a properly wire device, then what you have the, same thing. slow grond across a device lead up to heat build up an eventual fire. I will cap the wires in the wall so i dont have stray voltage in the ceiling. That make a lot of sense. Would you do the same thing in a drop ceiling.

So i guess were at the mercy of breaker manufacters.

I you disconnect the wires they are no longer electrical under code. Secondly what color nut do u use for one wire. If they are not electrical they do not have to terminate in a box.

Please read code before instructing some to do something dangerous?

Last edited by ianc435; 12-01-2010 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:27 PM   #17
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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So let me ask you one thing. If a breaker doesn't pop on a properly wire device, then what you have the, same thing. slow grond across a device lead up to heat build up an eventual fire. I will cap the wires in the wall so i dont have stray voltage in the ceiling. That make a lot of sense. Would you do the same thing in a drop ceiling.

So i guess were at the mercy of breaker manufacters.

I you disconnect the wires they are no longer electrical under code. Secondly what color nut do u use for one wire. If they are not electrical they do not have to terminate in a box.

Please read code before instructing some to do something dangerous?
Is this post a joke? You are comparing an intentional dead short to a properly wired device?

You are telling me to lookup code? I'm a licensed electrical contractor. Tell me, what code section did anything I said break?
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:35 PM   #18
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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Originally Posted by VersaBar
Is this post a joke? You are comparing an intentional dead short to a properly wired device?

You are telling me to lookup code? I'm a licensed electrical contractor. Tell me, what code section did anything I said break?
Leaving a stray line in the ceiling??? not terminating conductors in a box in a box.


And no i was talking about failure potentials of breakers which you refered to in a previous post.

What code did i break for tying two pieces of copper together which are not conductors any more.

Last edited by ianc435; 12-01-2010 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:53 PM   #19
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


I didn't say that what you said broke any code. You said that I did, so i would like to know which section. Thanks.

And I stand by what I said, which I base offof 30 years of experience. Purposely making a dead short in hopes that an OCPD trips is downright dangerous. You are MUCH safer having an abandoned wire with each conductor capped off separately. Even if someone made this wire hot one day, it wouldn't hurt anyone. Your walls are filled with live wires.


Your sarcastic remark about being at the mercy of the breaker manufacturer brings up a different point, let me give you a real world example. Back in the old days we used to (dangerously, and stupidly by today's standards) blow circuits up to identify them (ie. intentionally short them out to see which breaker tripped/fuse blew). The funny thing was, many times the OCPD never blew. What would happen was the lights would dim and the wires would make noise as they were dancing in the wall or pipe, but the OCPD wouldn't trip. This was for two reasons, sometimes some breakers just weren't up to par, it happens in the real world. Second, sometimes there was so much resistance in a circuit (long runs, semi-loose connections, etc.) that not enough current would flow to trip the OCPD. The fact of the matter is that it happens, whether you want to believe it or not.

The end this silly debate, think about what would happen if your plan worked 100% and the breaker blew when someone connected the abandoned circuit? You would have made a potential arc fault situation in which no one was prepared for. Yet another thing that you should be avoiding at all cost instead of inviting into people's homes.

Have fun...

Last edited by VersaBar; 12-01-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:20 PM   #20
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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Originally Posted by VersaBar
I didn't say that what you said broke any code. You said that I did, so i would like to know which section. Thanks.

And I stand by what I said, which I base offof 30 years of experience. Purposely making a dead short in hopes that an OCPD trips is downright dangerous. You are MUCH safer having an abandoned wire with each conductor capped off separately. Even if someone made this wire hot one day, it wouldn't hurt anyone. Your walls are filled with live wires.

No not making a short puposly i said if it is ever energised,to elaborate, by an idiot that coonects it on both ends.

And i would to like know what section that allows you leave a live wire in the ceiling?
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:38 PM   #21
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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No not making a short puposly i said if it is ever energised,to elaborate, by an idiot that coonects it on both ends.
No, that is not what you said. You never said anything about someone connecting "both" sides. If they had access to both sides they would take your splice apart anyway and it would be perfectly fine for them to reuse the wiring. What you were referring to is shorting all the conductors together so if someone energized the other side it would blow up on them.
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And i would to like know what section that allows you leave a live wire in the ceiling?
I want to know what section of law allows you to take a drink of water.

Laws and code restrict, if there are no restrictions on a specific task, you are free to perform it, it doesn't have to be specifically written out that you can do something. There are no NEC requirements to remove abandoned wiring.
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:24 PM   #22
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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Originally Posted by VersaBar
No, that is not what you said. You never said anything about someone connecting "both" sides. If they had access to both sides they would take your splice apart anyway and it would be perfectly fine for them to reuse the wiring. What you were referring to is shorting all the conductors together so if someone energized the other side it would blow up on them.
I want to know what section of law allows you to take a drink of water.

Laws and code restrict, if there are no restrictions on a specific task, you are free to perform it, it doesn't have to be specifically written out that you can do something. There are no NEC requirements to remove abandoned wiring.
There are codes for terminating wires especially live ones in ceilings. So what your saying is the wires can be tied together. They are no longer a circuit. A live wire in a ceiling is still a under nec. So terminating is still required.

Secondly if the idiot took the splice apart he could test them for continuity In fact from both ends , and he continues beyond that they deserve everthing they get . Natural selection.


Screw throgh line in ceiling yeah that would nt hurt at all

Last edited by ianc435; 12-01-2010 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:29 PM   #23
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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There are codes for terminating wires especially live ones in ceilings. So what your saying is the wires can be tied together. They are no longer a circuit. A live wire in a ceiling is still a under nec. So terminating is still required.
What are you talking about? Seriously? Most of what you are saying is just some jumble of words trying to talk around the fact that you can't back up your statements.
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Secondly if the idiot took the splice apart he could test them for continuity In fact from both ends , and he continues beyond that they deserve everthing they get . Natural selection.
And again, what does this have to do with the topic?

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Screw throgh line in ceiling yeah that would hurt at all
You're batting a thousand...
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:38 PM   #24
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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What are you talking about? Seriously? Most of what you are saying is just some jumble of words trying to talk around the fact that you can't back up your statements.
And again, what does this have to do with the topic?

You're batting a thousand...
You acctualy said leaving live wire in th ceiling would be ok. Thats what i am talking about and still waiting for code reference on terminating conductors, you are the liscensed contractor.
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:42 PM   #25
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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You acctualy said leaving live wire in th ceiling would be ok.
No, I did not.
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Thats what i am talking about and still waiting for code reference on terminating conductors, you are the liscensed contractor.
What does terminating conductors have to do with our conversation?

Every post you make you seem a little further in the bag.
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:46 PM   #26
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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No, I did not.
What does terminating conductors have to do with our conversation?

Every post you make you seem a little further in the bag.
12th post in, read it. That is your response right? something about capped line in ceiling and live voltage?


Still avoiding the questions. I think you the one getting further into the bag

Last edited by ianc435; 12-01-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:55 PM   #27
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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12th post in, read it. That is your response right? something about capped line in ceiling and live voltage?
This is what I said:
"What you propose is very dangerous. What if the breaker doesn't trip (which is definitely known to happen)? What if the homeowner just energized a dead short in their attic? That makes for a nice heating element waiting to burn their house down. I would MUCH rather have a capped off "stray line in the ceiling with voltage"."

Capping a line off and leaving it in the ceiling is a code compliant installation. If someone comes around later and energizes it, they would be breaking the code, not me. It would be "breaking the code" in the same way as if someone energized the circuit with a dead short connected.

I still insist that it would be safer than trying to orchestrate a dead short to work in your favor. I may be wrong, but you haven't brought up a valid argument to refute what I pointed out.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:02 PM   #28
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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This is what I said:
"What you propose is very dangerous. What if the breaker doesn't trip (which is definitely known to happen)? What if the homeowner just energized a dead short in their attic? That makes for a nice heating element waiting to burn their house down. I would MUCH rather have a capped off "stray line in the ceiling with voltage"."

Capping a line off and leaving it in the ceiling is a code compliant installation. If someone comes around later and energizes it, they would be breaking the code, not me. It would be "breaking the code" in the same way as if someone energized the circuit with a dead short connected.

I still insist that it would be safer than trying to orchestrate a dead short to work in your favor. I may be wrong, but you haven't brought up a valid argument to refute what I pointed out.
Well you have your opinion and i have mine and you haven't brought up a valid argument in terms of having a live wire in the ceiling. So if you reached into a wall and found three wires tied together what would you do?

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Old 12-01-2010, 07:19 PM   #29
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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Well you have your opinion and i have mine
Yes, very true. It's just a shame when one of those opinions is downright dangerous.
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and you haven't brought up a valid argument
I disagree. I have responded to everything you have posted with clear, honest, accurate answers.
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So if you reached into a wall and found three wires tied together what would you do?
Is this still question and answer time? These little quizzes you give me do not reflect upon your earlier promotion of dangerous activities.

But to answer your question, if I found a wire in the wall with all conductors tied together I would say "Look at what this idiot did to this abandoned wire". On the other hand, if I found a wire in the wall capped off separately or not even capped off at all, I would say "This is an abandoned wire". So what is your point?
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:00 PM   #30
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Removed ceiling lights - what to do with wires?


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Yes, very true. It's just a shame when one of those opinions is downright dangerous. I disagree. I have responded to everything you have posted with clear, honest, accurate answers.Is this still question and answer time? These little quizzes you give me do not reflect upon your earlier promotion of dangerous activities.

But to answer your question, if I found a wire in the wall with all conductors tied together I would say "Look at what this idiot did to this abandoned wire". On the other hand, if I found a wire in the wall capped off separately or not even capped off at all, I would say "This is an abandoned wire". So what is your point?
How does a wire with zero resistance heat up? Zero resistance no heat at the nut. Many electricians use this practice so they must be promoting this dangerous activity. Again you are entitled to your opinion as silly as it is and you can promote your dagerous activity. Why don't you pose the same question a a contractors website and see how answers you get to the question about propely terminsting and abandoning a wire. Well you a a " licensed contractor". Woopy t effin doo.

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