Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-29-2013, 08:40 PM   #16
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,075
Share |
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
When are you going to realize that you tend to start petty arguments that are pointless, and have nothing to do with the topic at and. I have already pointed out, that in a commercial situation, or even residential, cords will be torn up and unsafe, before the ground pin comes up missing on it. End of discussion.

.
Is this just your opinion or fact? lol….

stickboy1375 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 08:40 PM   #17
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,103
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
When do you realize you are only right after someone corrects your incorrectness? good night greg. oh, and go back and reread the thread and see what you wrote vs what I wrote.. I win, again….
I know when to stop, and when not to be petty. Seems that you tend to do both and do not know when you have turned the tables on your own self.

Suggest you understand better Stickboy, when it is time to just stop instead of continuing to be controlling in these discussions as you tend to do, while being too petty about stuff.

BTW, you won nothing. You just made yourself sound like a Teenage girl with that last statement.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 08:42 PM   #18
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,075
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
I know when to stop, and when not to be petty. Seems that you tend to do both and do not know when you have turned the tables on your own self.

Suggest you understand better Stickboy, when it is time to just stop instead of continuing to be controlling in these discussions as you tend to do, while being too petty about stuff.

BTW, you won nothing. You just made yourself sound like a Teenage girl with that last statement.
But it still bothered you… Thats how I won…
stickboy1375 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 08:49 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 180
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

but it still bothered you… thats how i won…
are you serious? How old are we, 2?
romex1220 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to romex1220 For This Useful Post:
gregzoll (10-29-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 08:50 PM   #20
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,075
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by romex1220 View Post
are you serious? How old are we, 2?
Oh yeah, it seriously bothers Greg… and it's a forum, who really judges people on here? lol…

This is FREE information, so lets keep it legit and informative, and not give out false information…

Last edited by stickboy1375; 10-29-2013 at 08:52 PM.
stickboy1375 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 09:31 PM   #21
retired elect/hvac/plumb
 
plummen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: south east of omaha/The island of misfit contractors
Posts: 2,901
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


How did we ever survive before gfis/afcis/in use covers/tamper resistant outlets.......?
__________________
"facts" have no relevance to this discusion
Posting from a concrete bunker under a non descript barn
plummen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to plummen For This Useful Post:
Kyle_in_rure (10-30-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 09:58 PM   #22
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,103
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Oh yeah, it seriously bothers Greg… and it's a forum, who really judges people on here? lol…

This is FREE information, so lets keep it legit and informative, and not give out false information…
Wrong again. Like Romex stated, what are you 2? You always are petty about stuff, and never know when to stop, do you?
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 10:01 PM   #23
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,103
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by plummen View Post
How did we ever survive before gfis/afcis/in use covers/tamper resistant outlets.......?
Like most of us still do. Even worse is that if you do not make your kid wear a helmet when skateboarding, bike riding, keep them out of trees or off of the top of boulders, you are a bad parent.

I remember riding down the hill in the woods back behind my house growing up, and try not to hit the trees on either side. We also had a terrace behind my cousins parents house, and would start at the top, ride down to the terrace between their property and the field at the bottom, with one of us either on the handle bars, or between the seat and the handle bars.

Got scratched up, dusted ourselves off, and did it all over again.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gregzoll For This Useful Post:
plummen (10-30-2013)
Old 10-29-2013, 10:03 PM   #24
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,103
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousB View Post
Gfcis don't trip due to power factor of the load. They trip because the current in the hot and neutral do not cancel out in the differential transformer of the GFCI. If the load is highly inductive the currents will still cancel out with no ground fault. Once a ground fault exists the current are no longer equal and the GFCI trips.

Urban myth that inductive loads are problems for GFCIs.
Not an Urban Myth. It was because when they first came out, motorized loads or things like refrigerators would trip them, when gfci's first were introduced. Why do you think that dryers and wash machines are still not required to have GFCI breakers on them, same as hvac equipment.

Sooner or later, those four will be required to have GFCI protection.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 10:43 PM   #25
Lord of Slums
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Detroit Mi
Posts: 736
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


two questions. Will a gfci work in a home that has no ground? I was told a ground wire is useless, it is only for lightning strikes, is there any truth in that.
mj12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2013, 11:06 PM   #26
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,103
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by mj12 View Post
two questions. Will a gfci work in a home that has no ground? I was told a ground wire is useless, it is only for lightning strikes, is there any truth in that.
Yes. As for the ground wire for lightning strikes, that in itself is a whole lot of misinformation right there. In older Single Phase systems, the ground wire is used as a return path back to the distribution system. You would have a wire from the system at the pole, attached to a rod in the ground, then at the house, you have the same thing. As long as you have the right resistance, you have a good return path back, so that you are able to complete the circuit, so your lights are on at the house. Now if you lost your ground, bad things would happen, such as fires, blown fuses, electrical shocks.

Now the ground wire is used as a safety measure in how today's systems are wired, but still actually serves the same purpose that it did before, in the old Single Phase system.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?

Last edited by gregzoll; 10-29-2013 at 11:16 PM.
gregzoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 05:39 AM   #27
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,826
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by mj12 View Post
two questions. Will a gfci work in a home that has no ground?
Yes, in fact they are sometimes used to install a 3-prong receptacle in a two-wire wired home.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mj12 View Post
I was told a ground wire is useless, it is only for lightning strikes, is there any truth in that.
You are confusing and equipment ground (the wire run with the circuit wires inside a home) with a grounding electrode conductor (the wire going to the ground rod outside). They are two very different things, with almost no relation to each other, yet are both "grounds".
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Speedy Petey For This Useful Post:
Jim Port (10-31-2013), mpoulton (10-31-2013), plummen (10-30-2013)
Old 10-30-2013, 06:02 AM   #28
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,075
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Not an Urban Myth. It was because when they first came out, motorized loads or things like refrigerators would trip them, when gfci's first were introduced. Why do you think that dryers and wash machines are still not required to have GFCI breakers on them, same as hvac equipment.

Sooner or later, those four will be required to have GFCI protection.
Wrong again Greg, older appliances would trip GFCI's only because they were in fact leaking current, UL has far stricter requirements on appliances and allowable current leakage… Think about this, if an older appliance is tripping a GFCI at 5ma, how safe do you really think those appliances were?????

Washer do not require GFCI protection because they are not considered a portable appliance, lowering the chances that the ground pin will be intact, and dryers are above 20 amps, again, not going to be continually plugged and unplugged.

Last edited by stickboy1375; 10-30-2013 at 06:11 AM.
stickboy1375 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 06:05 AM   #29
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,075
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by plummen View Post
How did we ever survive before gfis/afcis/in use covers/tamper resistant outlets.......?
it's all about lowering the chances of an accidental death, everything evolves as people are more educated in safety… look at how the automobile industry has changed for a better survival rate in a crash.
stickboy1375 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2013, 06:15 AM   #30
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 7,223
Default

Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Earthing/Grounding for a house or any structure is almost black magic to some people.....

Here are some good references...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)

Quote:
Equipment earthing conductors provide an electrical connection between non-current-carrying metallic parts of equipment and the earth. The reason for doing this according to the U.S. National Electrical Code (NEC), is to limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, and contact with higher voltage lines. The equipment earthing conductor is usually also used as the equipment bonding conductor (see below).

Equipment bonding conductors provide a low impedance path between non-current-carrying metallic parts of equipment and one of the conductors of that electrical system's source, so that if a part becomes energized for any reason, such as a frayed or damaged conductor, a short circuit will occur and operate a circuit breaker or fuse to disconnect the faulted circuit. Note that the earth itself has no role in this fault-clearing process[3] since current must return to its source, not the earth as is sometimes believed[citation needed] (see Kirchhoff's circuit laws). By bonding (interconnecting) all exposed non-current carrying metal objects together, they should remain near the same potential thus reducing the chance of a shock. This is especially important in bathrooms where one may be in contact with several different metallic systems such as supply and drain pipes and appliance frames. The equipment bonding conductor is usually also used as the equipment earthing conductor (see above).

A grounding electrode conductor connects one leg of an electrical system to one or more earth electrodes. This is called "system grounding" and most systems are required to be grounded. The U.S. NEC and the UK's BS 7671 list systems that are required to be grounded. The grounding electrode conductor is connected to the leg of the electrical system that is the "neutral wire". The grounding electrode conductor is also usually bonded to pipework and structural steel in larger structures. According to the NEC, the purpose of earthing an electrical system is to limit the voltage to earth imposed by lightning events and contact with higher voltage lines, and also to stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation. In the past, water supply pipes were often used as ground electrodes, but this was banned where plastic pipes are popular. This type of ground applies to radio antennas and to lightning protection systems.

Permanently installed electrical equipment usually also has permanently connected grounding conductors. Portable electrical devices with metal cases may have them connected to earth ground by a pin in the interconnecting plug (see Domestic AC power plugs and sockets). The size of power ground conductors is usually regulated by local or national wiring regulations.
http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-s...ctors-building

http://ecmweb.com/bonding-amp-ground...ode-conductors

We have been using electricity for over 100 years....and we are still learning how to properly use it....

Consider the Ufer ground.....discovered during WWII....only now being put into mainstream use.

__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My 2-Story Addition Build in Progress Link ... My Garage Build Link and My Jeep Build Link
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ddawg16 For This Useful Post:
gregzoll (10-30-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
spa gfci circuit trips with no load connected jima512 Electrical 15 04-08-2013 11:10 PM
Dimming lights on one circuit, GFCI breaker tripped boatman537 Electrical 4 06-05-2012 10:43 AM
Stairway light powered from GFCI circuit? jeh179 Electrical 10 03-23-2011 08:57 AM
GFCI Outlet on 20A garage circuit campos202 Electrical 2 09-10-2009 09:38 AM
GFCI Trips campbellpt Electrical 28 11-21-2008 03:06 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.