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Old 10-29-2013, 01:53 PM   #1
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
A properly functioning refrigerator should have no issues on a GFI protected circuit. In a commercial setting the refrigerator is required to be GFI protected.

I don't know why some are so concerned with food over a persons life. The food can be replaced.
That is because in a commercial type setting, the floors are usually washed down, or can be wet from spilled fluids (ie grease), or wet from being freshly mopped. Also you are touch metal countertops all day long, and they also tend to have electrical outlets built into that metal pillar or shelf above the counter.

That is the biggest reason why GFCI protection is required in a Commercial setting, on every outlet in the food service & prep areas.

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Old 10-29-2013, 03:09 PM   #2
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
That is because in a commercial type setting, the floors are usually washed down, or can be wet from spilled fluids (ie grease), or wet from being freshly mopped. Also you are touch metal countertops all day long, and they also tend to have electrical outlets built into that metal pillar or shelf above the counter.

That is the biggest reason why GFCI protection is required in a Commercial setting, on every outlet in the food service & prep areas.
So how does this change whether a resi refer is one GFI or not? It doesn't. It reenforces that even a resi refer on a GFI is not such a bad thing. In both settings a trip is possible, and in both settings you'd notice it quite quickly.

I'll reiterate; it's not optimal, but it's not a bad thing either.

I also call BS on the whole "What if it trips while you are on vacation?" line. A) No one leaves a refer full of fresh food when the go on vacation. B) If it's not tripping other times it's not going to trip while you are on vaca.

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Old 10-29-2013, 03:12 PM   #3
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post

I know the code is changing in the case of garages where 'everything' has to be GFCI...including fridges and freezers...but as of right now, I believe a fridge/freezer is exempt....at least in the 2008 cycle.
Nope. The exception to have a refer or freezer on non-GFI was in the 2005 NEC and removed in the 2008.
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:30 PM   #4
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Well....I was sort of close
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:40 PM   #5
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
So how does this change whether a resi refer is one GFI or not? It doesn't. It reenforces that even a resi refer on a GFI is not such a bad thing. In both settings a trip is possible, and in both settings you'd notice it quite quickly.

I'll reiterate; it's not optimal, but it's not a bad thing either.

I also call BS on the whole "What if it trips while you are on vacation?" line. A) No one leaves a refer full of fresh food when the go on vacation. B) If it's not tripping other times it's not going to trip while you are on vaca.
GFCI circuits in a commercial Kitchen have nothing to do with the equipment, it is to stop people from getting shocked, while standing or working on and around wet metal surfaces.

Residential Kitchens are not going to have soaking wet floors, electrical wiring inside metal chases that are easily touched, outlets banged into all day long, cords that are also banged into causing the plugs to be broken loose from the cord, causing a way to be electrocuted or shocked.

The whole argument is why some people do not want a residential freezer or refrigerator on a gfci, because they believe that the gfci is the problem not the equipment. There are plenty of instances that the equipment was the problem, not the circuit.
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Old 10-29-2013, 07:36 PM   #6
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
GFCI circuits in a commercial Kitchen have nothing to do with the equipment, it is to stop people from getting shocked, while standing or working on and around wet metal surfaces.

Residential Kitchens are not going to have soaking wet floors, electrical wiring inside metal chases that are easily touched, outlets banged into all day long, cords that are also banged into causing the plugs to be broken loose from the cord, causing a way to be electrocuted or shocked.

The whole argument is why some people do not want a residential freezer or refrigerator on a gfci, because they believe that the gfci is the problem not the equipment. There are plenty of instances that the equipment was the problem, not the circuit.
Not even close Greg, the reason GFCI protection is required in a commercial application is that the equipment gets moved frequently, increasing the odds the ground pin gets broken off on the appliance, the wet floor scenario is a non issue…

People really need to understand why GFCI protection is required to begin with… a ground pin trumps GFCI protection EVERY TIME!!!! so if there is any chance that this primary protection can be compromised, GFCI protection is a second means of protection against lethal shocks….

I hate how the information out on the internet is so misleading to people….

Last edited by stickboy1375; 10-29-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:03 PM   #7
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Not even close Greg, the reason GFCI protection is required in a commercial application is that the equipment gets moved frequently, increasing the odds the ground pin gets broken off on the appliance, the wet floor scenario is a non issue…

People really need to understand why GFCI protection is required to begin with… a ground pin trumps GFCI protection EVERY TIME!!!! so if there is any chance that this primary protection can be compromised, GFCI protection is a second means of protection against lethal shocks….

I hate how the information out on the internet is so misleading to people….
It is not that I left it out on purpose, I forgot about that part, since most times the cords are going to get beat up pretty bad, before the ground pins fall out.

The sad thing is, that you have the same careless type of people that work in the food service industry, that treat their stuff at home the same way.

BTW, it is not misleading people what is stated on this thread, since it is as I have stated before a Round Table discussion.

Misleading would be just making up stuff and not sticking with the rules as we see out on the tech forums, regarding computer hardware & software. Or just telling people to disregard what the rules state that are put out by the AHJ & NFPA, just do whatever.

I find more miss truth in computer & electronic equipment forums, then anywhere else. Especially when it comes to Ground Hum, Ground Loops, and LV methods.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:05 PM   #8
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
It is not that I left it out on purpose, I forgot about that part, since most times the cords are going to get beat up pretty bad, before the ground pins fall out.

The sad thing is, that you have the same careless type of people that work in the food service industry, that treat their stuff at home the same way.

BTW, it is not misleading people what is stated on this thread, since it is as I have stated before a Round Table discussion.

Misleading would be just making up stuff and not sticking with the rules as we see out on the tech forums, regarding computer hardware & software. Or just telling people to disregard what the rules state that are put out by the AHJ & NFPA, just do whatever.

I find more miss truth in computer & electronic equipment forums, then anywhere else. Especially when it comes to Ground Hum, Ground Loops, and LV methods.
Easy to be right after someone corrects you….
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:21 PM   #9
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Easy to be right after someone corrects you….
No one corrected anything, so I do not know where you are getting that from. So I forgot about missing ground plug on the portable coolers. How many times have you seen extension cords used by "professionals" with the ground pins missing, or torn outer covering, or even worse, electrical tape covering the inner wiring. When was the last time you have known a Sparky to Meg out their equipment to make sure it is not leaking to ground?

Yesterday when I had a safety check on our furnace, the company guy that came, brought in an extension cord, with a missing ground plug, and the cord I would have to say, was near the end of its useful lifespan.

Then they wonder why there is such a hard push for GFCI protection on things like outlets, portable tools, hairdryers, some extension cords, etc..
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:22 PM   #10
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
No one corrected anything, so I do not know where you are getting that from. So I forgot about missing ground plug on the portable coolers. How many times have you seen extension cords used by "professionals" with the ground pins missing, or torn outer covering, or even worse, electrical tape covering the inner wiring. When was the last time you have known a Sparky to Meg out their equipment to make sure it is not leaking to ground?

Yesterday when I had a safety check on our furnace, the company guy that came, brought in an extension cord, with a missing ground plug, and the cord I would have to say, was near the end of its useful lifespan.

Then they wonder why there is such a hard push for GFCI protection on things like outlets, portable tools, hairdryers, some extension cords, etc..
I know why they are required, it's a non issue for me… you specifically said because of wet metal and floors… reread what you wrote, not once did broken ground pins come up in your rebuttal…

just suck it up and say you were wrong…
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:24 PM   #11
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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I know why they are required, it's a non issue for me… you specifically said because of wet metal and floors…
Yes, because that is what you are going to run into in the majority of times in a commercial setting. You need to read everything, not just bits and pieces of what people state, along with stop tearing everything apart that they post.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:27 PM   #12
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Originally Posted by romex1220
Yes because refers have high inductance motors and will sometimes trip a gfi on start up and what if you're away on vacation. Guess what you'll come home to? A refer should be on its own circuit anyway and not with the kit sabc, if possible
Gfcis don't trip due to power factor of the load. They trip because the current in the hot and neutral do not cancel out in the differential transformer of the GFCI. If the load is highly inductive the currents will still cancel out with no ground fault. Once a ground fault exists the current are no longer equal and the GFCI trips.

Urban myth that inductive loads are problems for GFCIs.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:28 PM   #13
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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Yes, because that is what you are going to run into in the majority of times in a commercial setting. You need to read everything, not just bits and pieces of what people state, along with stop tearing everything apart that they post.
You are still wrong in your assumption… sorry…. It's all about the ground pin, bottom line.

If every appliance was hardwired, GFCI protection would never be required. The Equipment grounding conductor trumps GFCI protection EVERY time…

Last edited by stickboy1375; 10-29-2013 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:32 PM   #14
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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You are still wrong in your assumption… sorry…. It's all about the ground pin, bottom line.

If every appliance was hardwired, GFCI protection would never be required.
When are you going to realize that you tend to start petty arguments that are pointless, and have nothing to do with the topic at and. I have already pointed out, that in a commercial situation, or even residential, cords will be torn up and unsafe, before the ground pin comes up missing on it. End of discussion.

If you want to argue with someone, suggest go to a daycare and find some kid there that will argue if Chocolate pudding is better than Vanilla Ice Cream with Chocolate syrup on it.
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Old 10-29-2013, 08:34 PM   #15
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Refridgerater on GFCI circuit?, Continuing debate


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When are you going to realize that you tend to start petty arguments that are pointless, and have nothing to do with the topic at and. I have already pointed out, that in a commercial situation, or even residential, cords will be torn up and unsafe, before the ground pin comes up missing on it. End of discussion.

If you want to argue with someone, suggest go to a daycare and find some kid there that will argue if Chocolate pudding is better than Vanilla Ice Cream with Chocolate syrup on it.
When do you realize you are only right after someone corrects your incorrectness? good night greg. oh, and go back and reread the thread and see what you wrote vs what I wrote.. I win, again….

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