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-   -   re-routing wires (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/re-routing-wires-165496/)

Savinmoney 12-03-2012 03:47 PM

re-routing wires
 
We have a lowered ceiling in the kitchen and I am currently raising it. By doing so, I am having to re-route some of the wiring. I have drilled 1 1/4 in. holes through some of the rafters and fed 5 wires through the whole. My question is if this is ok. I was told by someone before that there was a limit as to how many wires could run through a conduit, but was unsure if 5 wires bunched next to each other in this fashion was exceptable.

electures 12-03-2012 04:53 PM

If you bundle more than (2) 14/2 romex for more than 24" it will have to be derated. Five cables will have to be derated. What are the gauges of each cable? I am more concerned about the 1 1/4" hole through the rafters. You may have weakened the rafter.

Savinmoney 12-03-2012 05:09 PM

12-2 wire. Actually it was 2x12 floor joists for upstairs. How would you re-route wire? How many wires can be bundled for how many feet?

stickboy1375 12-03-2012 05:13 PM

IMO, running wires through bored holes is not bundling, the joist are typically 1.5" thick, thus does not meet the 24" length requirement to be considered bundled, you can run as many wires as you wish in bored holes, the only time this is an issue is when fire stopping is required, then you run into the max. 9 current carrying conductor rule, and are limited to that or derating must take effect.

Savinmoney 12-03-2012 05:21 PM

What would be the problem with the wires being bundled anyway? Of course we have to describe "bundled" Five 12-2's running through several 2x12's for approx. 14 ft. would be ok then?

stickboy1375 12-03-2012 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savinmoney (Post 1065679)
What would be the problem with the wires being bundled anyway? Of course we have to describe "bundled" Five 12-2's running through several 2x12's for approx. 14 ft. would be ok then?

The problem with bundling, when cables and wires are actually bundled, is heat dissipation...

And I don't see an issue at all with what you propose.

stickboy1375 12-03-2012 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electures (Post 1065650)
If you bundle more than (2) 14/2 romex for more than 24" it will have to be derated.

And two NM's are already derated, its only an issue when we get to 9 current carrying conductors.

Savinmoney 12-03-2012 05:33 PM

So the heat issue is really dealing with the "length" in which the wires are "enclosed"? (Cannot be enclosed for more than 24") The wires touching one another wouldn't be an isssue? Hey. I'm a truck driver, not an electrician! HA HA

Rochsolid 12-03-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electures
If you bundle more than (2) 14/2 romex for more than 24" it will have to be derated. Five cables will have to be derated. What are the gauges of each cable? I am more concerned about the 1 1/4" hole through the rafters. You may have weakened the rafter.

I agree with electures on this. I usually run 2 cables per 3/4" hole. That's the norm where I'm from, inspectors will fail it if we don't. Also a 1 1/4" hole in your 2x10 joist is a very big hole, I would be worried about the structural strength now of those joists

stickboy1375 12-03-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savinmoney (Post 1065690)
So the heat issue is really dealing with the "length" in which the wires are "enclosed"? (Cannot be enclosed for more than 24") The wires touching one another wouldn't be an isssue? Hey. I'm a truck driver, not an electrician! HA HA

They can touch, you're fine with what you did....

stickboy1375 12-03-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochsolid (Post 1065691)
I agree with electures on this. I usually run 2 cables per 3/4" hole. That's the norm where I'm from, inspectors will fail it if we don't.

Then the inspectors are morons... so which code section did they fail you on?


EDIT

Eh. you're canadian... that changes things.

Rochsolid 12-03-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickboy1375

Then the inspectors are morons... so which code section did they fail you on?

EDIT

Eh. you're canadian... that changes things.

I've never heard of anyone running that many wires thru one hole.

stickboy1375 12-03-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochsolid (Post 1065715)
I've never heard of anyone running that many wires thru one hole.

It's a non issue.... I dont see any code violation.

rootboy 12-03-2012 11:57 PM

As far as derating is concerned, I wouldn't be concerned with it. But as you add cables to a hole, you build up more friction as you pull each additional cable through. I've seen the outer shell of romex worn away and all the way through the THW insulation as well (yeah, I'm an old electrician). So I always limit myself to two.

Adding more holes in the joist (within reason) won't hurt anything.But do yourself a favor, drill every other joist as you drill your holes, and at the end, turn around and go back and drill the joists that you skipped. This will make pulling the romex through your holes much easier.

And I always unroll my roll of romex on the floor and never pull it directly from the center. This will add a twist that will act as a "rasp" that can damage existing cables in a given hole.

Canucker 12-04-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickboy1375 (Post 1065694)
Then the inspectors are morons... so which code section did they fail you on?


EDIT

Eh. you're canadian... that changes things.

Unless its a manitoba thing, in Ontario, we can run it the way you propose. Has to be bundled for more than 2 feet here, as well. Running it through joists doesn't count as bundling. (I'm not 100% sure, but I think we have to start derating at 7 conductors though.)


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