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Old 04-24-2008, 12:40 AM   #1
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range wiring questions


I'm putting in a range aand running a new 220V circuit to it. it'll be run outside the house in conduit. what size wire do I need, 8-3,6-3? what size conduit? any building codes concerning length of such a run? (it'll be quite a long run,maybe 100')

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Old 04-24-2008, 08:43 PM   #2
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I would use 3/4" EMT with compression fittings for this project. I would also consider if there would be any possibility that I'd want to add anything along this run in the future. If so, I'd install a 2 gang 'bell box' (weathertight junction box) somewhere. I would make sure that the conduit entered and exited the box in a straight line.

If the range needs a neutral (they usually do), I'd pull three #8's, and one #10 for the ground. I realize that it's code legal to use EMT for a ground, but in my experience when it's installed outside of buildings, the joints sometimes come apart, thus losing the ground path.



I would pull this wire continuous, (without splice), straight through any J-boxes. When you've got it pulled in, grab the ground wire, and pull a loop big enough to splice into. If you add more circuits later, you'll never splice into the range circuit, but you certainly can splice into the ground.

Rob

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Old 04-24-2008, 11:49 PM   #3
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you mean you'd pull individual wires thru the conduit as opposed to usising Romex. is that cheaper? is there a code that says wires inside a conduit have to be individual? by the way,how easy is it to pull wire thru conduit? this run will have quite a few corners to go around.

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Old 04-25-2008, 12:02 AM   #4
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Yes, yes, yes and.... it is easy if you know how to run conduit
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:52 AM   #5
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When installing conduit, you're limited to not more than four 90 degree bends in one run. You can use boxes or other fittings (like LB's) to break up the run. Generally speaking, with inside corners you can bend a 90 (or buy pre-bent ones), and outside corners you'd use an LB.

Conduit wire is single conductor, you pull them all in at the same time. NM would be difficult to pull through conduit. The single conductor is usually type THHN/THWN. Some fairly useless info here; the T stands for thermoplastic insulation, 60C maximum temperature. Each H adds 15C. The W means it's OK for wet locations. (conduit outside is generally considered a wet location, so is PVC buried underground). The N means it has a nylon outer covering.

Three #8's and one #10 in a 3/4" 100' long with four 90's would actually be an reasonably easy pull. Usually, you install the entire conduit system, then shove a steel fishtape into it until it sticks out the other end. (NOT into a hot panel!!!) The fishtape is about the only thing that'll make it around the bends. Then you attach the wires to the end, and pull them into the conduit.

If you don't have a fishtape, you can thread the wires into each piece of conduit as you are putting it together. I usually don't recommend this method because it's easy to damage the wire. Thread a 1/4" rope in as you go, and use it to pull the wires in. Another way is to blow or suck (or both) a mouse into the conduit. No, not the 4 legged kind. lol. It's a foam rubber thing that fits a specific size of conduit, and has a metal rod through it with eyelets on each end. You tie a small string to it, and vacuum or blow it through the conduit. then you use the string to pull a rope in. It works good with PVC, ok with EMT and compression fittings, not good in EMT with setscrew fittings, and not good in PVC with water in it. I've done 4" this way with a big compressor (jackhammer type) over 2000' long.

As always, you can see how it pays to plan ahead with conduit.

Rob
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:34 PM   #6
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Micro,
He needs a four wire circuit regardless. 2 hots 1 neutral and one ground.
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:08 PM   #7
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ok,so I fish these individual wires thru the conduit, now, at the end of the conduit run,I'm at the hole I bored thrrrough the foundation to get the wire(s) inside (no.boring thru the sill is out, I'm thinking of renting a hammer drill) I've still got maybe 15' to go to the outlet. should I put a j-box where the wires come in and continue with Romex? wouldn't it be kinda sloppy to have 15' of loose wires running to the outlet? is there a code?

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Old 04-25-2008, 08:21 PM   #8
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You can change to romex in a j box. Make sure your wire nuts are tight.

You can also continue with conduit or flex.

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If you don't have a fishtape, you can thread the wires into each piece of conduit as you are putting it together
Technically, per code, you can't use this method.
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Old 04-26-2008, 01:54 AM   #9
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hmmm...is it ok to switch to pvc before the hole in the foundation? can metal conduit and pvc be joined with a compression fitting? maybe the whole run should be pvc! is pvc hard to work with? is it reliable? how do you make the bends? how do you join the lengths together?

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Old 04-26-2008, 11:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joba Fett View Post
This OP definitely falls into the category of GET A LICENSED CONTRACTOR.
This is a DIY site. The OP can get all the advise he needs to complete this project from the professional electricians on board.
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Old 04-26-2008, 02:29 PM   #11
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I most definitely agree with jrclen, all people like me need is sound advice and we can get things done. I,for one, wouldn't be on this site if I couldn't run some wires in a conduit!

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Old 04-26-2008, 06:02 PM   #12
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I think this project is well within the abilities of your average DIYer.

You can easily change from EMT to PVC by using an EMT compression connector threaded onto a PVC female adapter.

A few disadvantages to running PVC on the outside of a building; eventually it'll discolor when exposed to sunlight. It'll turn brown, and over the years it'll get brittle. According to table 352.30(B) in the 2005 NEC, you'll need to support 3/4" PVC every 3'. Even strapping it every 3', its very hard to keep straight. Also, thermal expansion must be considered, this shoots down most runs longer than 10'.

Most PVC electrical conduit comes with bell ends, just glue it together. Even though the code specifically states that bends must be made "only with bending equipment identified for the purpose", most of us just use a propane torch to heat it up, bend it, and let it cool. (If I don't post for a while, it's because the code police have read this, visited a job where I was running PVC, and sent me to prison for the next several hundred years.. lol). If you heat it and bend it, be very careful not to kink it, and make the bends long sweeps. You have to use long sweeping motions with the torch, or you'll burn the outside to a crisp. There's a real trick to bending PVC, it just takes practice. If the bends are 90's, it's quicker and easier to buy factory bent 90's.

Since PVC is an electrical insulator, a ground wire must be pulled.

Rob
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:50 PM   #13
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Just my personal opinion, but 1/2 or 3/4 pvc looks terrible on the outside of a house. And looks worse every year. I would bury it along side the foundation.
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrclen View Post
This is a DIY site. The OP can get all the advise he needs to complete this project from the professional electricians on board.
JRCLEN- It's Joba Fett. He started posting to the site about a couple of months or so ago and never has anything informative/helpful or positive to say; He only berates/belittles the OP's. Total bird-brain. He's more proud of his signature line than anything else. Don't sweat the jag. Perhaps if no one acknowledges him, he'll simply go away (like a chancre sore eventually does).
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Old 04-27-2008, 12:09 AM   #15
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so, it'll be metal conduit! is 3/4" easy to bend with a cheapo bender from Home Depot or should I invest in a real good one? BTW, how do you cut the stuff, maybe my recip. saw with a metal cutting blade?

tnx,

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