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Old 01-28-2008, 11:07 PM   #31
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You also have a license as a "seer" I see. As for this thread I consider it closed and your credibility also.

I seek to make this forum one that is respected for its answers both in safety and code compliance. Your agenda is not the same as mine.

As for my physical qualities I'm 6'3" 235 lbs 55 years old and you got the last part wrong too.... I am not a tough guy.

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Old 01-28-2008, 11:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
In my opinion using SE for a service entrance conductors, although legal, is dangerous and shows a total lack of quality. Who the hell would run unprotected conductors inside a feaking house? Lot's of people I guess. I don't care if the code says it's safe. I say it's not and I wouldn't do it.
Yet...you would use the bare equipment ground of an NM cable to carry current.
Pretty hypocritical, don't you think?




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I don't know 100% the answer to this. It would require some research.
Yeah. It would require you to buy a code book.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:15 PM   #33
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...............sumbody tag me in here...............
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:15 PM   #34
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Of COURSE it was out of line. That was the POINT.

I had been nothing but civil and as always was stating my opinion.

Stubbie felt the need to take things to a personal level over and over again so I simply joined his game. I was wrong about his stature and was certain he was younger. I am not sure WHAT drives his personal attacks.

Off topic but, Stubbie....your birthday is not tomorrow is it?
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Yet...you would use the bare equipment ground of an NM cable to carry current.
Pretty hypocritical, don't you think?

Apples and oranges.


You say using a bare conductor in SE is OK but not in NM.

Pretty hypocritical, don't you think?


BTW, how long have you and Stubbie been dating?
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by woodman51jfk View Post
...............sumbody tag me in here...............
TAG!
I'm going to bed.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:31 PM   #37
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I asked around for opinions on why SE is acceptable while NM is not but haven't recieved any replies.

Seriously....If anyone has a thought I still would really like to hear it.

I am assuming that no one here has any idea or they would have offered it up at some point between the drama. Pete is stuck on the bare conductor even though SE also has a bare conductor. Stubbs refuses to even think about it.

Anyone else???
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:19 AM   #38
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I queried six people on this topic, two inspectors and four masters and got one answer. Five of the guys had no idea why the bare conductor in the SE is acceptable and the bare in the NM is not. One inspector, who has sat on NEC committee's, stated this: If the reason involves the bare conductor, and I'm not saying that is the reason, but if it is I would think it is because in an SE cable the bare conductor is insulated by the outer covering but in an NM cable the ground is wrapped with paper, a flammable substance. The paper is put on to protect the insulated conductors during the manufacturing process. It's the paper covering that might be the factor limiting the exception to SE only.
I'm just throwing it out there. Have at it!
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:46 AM   #39
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Thanks Cheyenne I appreciate the effort!
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:32 PM   #40
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220/221: While it may not satisfy your quest for theory, etc., I was always under the impression SE was acceptable for ranges and dryers (and only when fed from the main service panel) prior to 1996 because SE is listed for use with the bare conductor as a neutral when used as a service entrance conductor. So by extending that use for those two applications, with the restrictions imposed, it was an acceptable alternative to three individual insulated conductors.
The use of two conductor NM w/g has never been an acceptable wiring method for ranges and dryers as the bare conductor is not approved as a current carrying conductor. But others have already pointed this out to you.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:46 PM   #41
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Quote:
prior to 1996 because SE is listed for use with the bare conductor as a neutral when used as a service entrance conductor. So by extending that use for those two applications, with the restrictions imposed, it was an acceptable alternative to three individual insulated conductors.
I think you are correct. It would have been easy for them to say no to a new product (6,8 NM) but difficult for them to go back and say that the SE that has been used for so many years is not acceptable.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:04 PM   #42
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see...if the range DOESN'T have a ground prong, it won't fit to a newer "4 prong" receptacle, it varies on the manufacturer.
If the range has 3 prongs, then:
HOT1 is the black wire, HOT2 is the white wire and NEUTRAL/GROUND is the bare wire because it (the receptacle) doesn't have separate ground and neutral prongs.

If the range has 4 prongs, then you need to run new, 8/3 wire and then:
HOT1 is the black, HOT2 is the red, NEUTRAL is the white, and GROUND is the bare or green.

It all depends on the range.....
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:07 PM   #43
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oops and the box is NOT acceptable. You need a 4X4 or "square junction" box
sorry speedy but, even pros make omissions.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:21 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyenne View Post
in this case your bare copper wire, must be not smaller than #10 copper. Your's looks to be a # 12.
holy camole! 12!!!!! the builder must have been out of his mind!!! jeez! you need 8 AWG minimum for 50 amps!
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:36 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt2007 View Post
see...if the range DOESN'T have a ground prong, it won't fit to a newer "4 prong" receptacle, it varies on the manufacturer.
If the range has 3 prongs, then:
HOT1 is the black wire, HOT2 is the white wire and NEUTRAL/GROUND is the bare wire because it (the receptacle) doesn't have separate ground and neutral prongs.

If the range has 4 prongs, then you need to run new, 8/3 wire and then:
HOT1 is the black, HOT2 is the red, NEUTRAL is the white, and GROUND is the bare or green.

It all depends on the range.....
It actually does NOT depend on the range. It depends on the receptacle in place and you install the cord to match.
Ranges do NOT come with cords attached. Someone must install one before placing the range.

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