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Old 12-28-2008, 06:51 PM   #1
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Range Install


ok so our range went out on us christmas day, but not till after most of dinner was cooked, the landlord brought over a replacement stove today and boy was i in for a surprise when i pulled the old one out as its hard wired with some type of bx that didnt even look large eunf to handle the amperage, hence the burnt wirenut, broken wires at the range connection, not to mention direct connection of al to cu..

below are some pics of what it looks like right now, power has been cut of course...

now on to the ?

this al wire is fed buy a 60a double pole breaker, however the surface mount range plug i just bought at lowes says 50a max, and there were no other 3 wire plugs rated any higher then 50a, the plate on the new stove says 13.8kw at 240v which if my calculations are correct that comes to 57.5 amps, clearly more then the wall plug i just bought can even handle... so can some of the experts explain this to me?

if 57.5a at 240v is 28.75a on each 120v leg should i replace that 60a double pole with a 30 or 40a double pole?

thanks in advance..
Ratt
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Range Install-img_1087.jpg   Range Install-img_1088.jpg   Range Install-img_1089.jpg   Range Install-img_1091.jpg  
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:00 PM   #2
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Range Install


It's a rental your landlord should be calling an electrician.

I don't believe that cable is legal for a stove in the US. I only see two hots and a ground. You must at least have a white neutral wire I believe.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by joed View Post
It's a rental your landlord should be calling an electrician.

I don't believe that cable is legal for a stove in the US. I only see two hots and a ground. You must at least have a white neutral wire I believe.
the landlord is coming over here in the morning

i understand that it isnt code and the regular yadda yadda, but amazingly enuf all the homes built around here in the 70's and 80's are wired this way.. i dont think they all have been rewired to meet todays code just because the code changed. the new range states 3 wire on it also.

as for the landlords electrician, well here is a thread i posted pics in that shows what their "electrician" did when he changed out my subpanel. main subpanel questions

Ratt

Last edited by rsriverrat; 12-28-2008 at 07:14 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:35 PM   #4
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Range Install


Your original SE cable feed is fine. Pre existing rules apply.


Change the breaker to a 50, get a deep 4 square box, install a 50A range recep w/ an industrial and and plug it in.

A deep 2G box with a flush recep cover will work also. Mount the box low and to the side behind the range with the ground slot pointing in the proper direction.
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:12 PM   #5
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Range Install


this is what i got before i had posted this thread
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...2-L&lpage=none

or should i go get
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...P-L&lpage=none
and a deep 2 gang metal box and just screw it to the wall?

i'd prefer the former since i already have that here.

Ratt
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:32 PM   #6
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Range Install


This is fine, you don't need the junction box to use it:

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Old 12-28-2008, 09:37 PM   #7
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This is fine, you don't need the junction box to use it:

i figured that was ok i just wanted to make sure, by the time i am done i'll have most of the wiring sorted in this place so when i buy it i will know what the heck i have and what needs to be done right... lol

Ratt
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:47 PM   #8
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Range Install


The range is 13.8 KW or as you calculated 57.5 amps. This is the nameplate load per leg. You do not divide it in half. In order for a 60 amp breaker to have been correct the existing 3 wire SE cable would need to be #3 awg. It looks like #6 to me. The armored flex pigtail is 4 wire connected to a 3 wire supply and I don't see the bonding jumper on the old range in the photo, so I am assuming they connected the copper ground wire in the pigtail to the range frame.I don't see though that they connected to the metal box but I coan't tell in the photo. Regardless this existing connection is rather iffy at best. The hot wire nut is due to a loose connection inside the wire nut....that would be my best guess.

Anyway as 220/221 and Kbsparky has stated cord and plug the new range to a 3 wire range receptacle rated 50 amps. Be sure the range has the bonding jumper installed to the frame from the neutral terminal at the wiring block on the back of the range. If the range is new there should be instructions showing the details.

Now to answer your questions about the correct wire size and amperage of the range.

If you wire the range according to nameplate then that cable needs to be #3 awg aluminum in order to carry the rated nameplate load.

However the NEC allows range loads and their branch circuits to be diversified based on a table demand load for a single range. Using that table the demand load for this existing range in the photo is 8.8 KW and would require a 40 amp banch circuit. So the existing 3 wire SE aluminum supply needs to be at least #6 awg for a range of 13.8 KW.

To touch on something 220/221 mentioned the receptacle needs to low enough and positioned so that the cavity of the range drawer will allow the receptacle to not contact the range frame keeping you from pushing the range all the way back to the wall. It looks like you can get the receptacle mounted to that 1x4 or to the floor. These receptacles are not the easiest to wire if you haven't done one before. You need to make sure you don't strip off too much of the outer jacket of that SE cable as that jacket needs to be inside your cable clamp. So just a heads up. Also you need to point the receptacle the right direction so the cord doesn't double back over itself.
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Last edited by Stubbie; 12-28-2008 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:24 PM   #9
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Range Install


very informative stubbie thank you, i have installed on of these type before on a dryer plug,but with copper instead of aluminum, i can already tell this will be a pain because that aluminum is solid as a rock, very hard to bend. i'm just afraid that the neutral will be to big to go in the lug, ive already tried one of the hot legs and it fits fine in the lugs.

i am not sure on the bonding screw on the new to me range, however it already has a 3 wire plug installed on it as it is used and came to me that way today, so i assume its bonded correctly but i will remove the plate and take a look, the manual is still with the stove, i'll have a look at it in the morning also...

you guys have been great with all my questions on both this and the shed power, thanks alot.

Ratt
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