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Old 02-27-2013, 10:16 AM   #106
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Question about changing a service panel (breaker box)


It may be acceptable in your locale, but since you won't tell us what state your are in we can't help. As for dealing with the city, document your correspondence for future use. As for the contractor, again if we knew what state you are on we may be able to offer some guidance.

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Old 02-27-2013, 10:18 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradeno

Electures, I hadn't considered extending it. If heat is really a problem in this pipe, how does extending the pipe make the situation any better? That doesn't make sense to me.
Because in addition to extending it you have to run several conduits and limit the number of cables to four each.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:20 AM   #108
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Question about changing a service panel (breaker box)


It doesn't matter if it makes sense. The rules state the sleeve must be at least 18" in order to meet the requirements.

I am sorry that the contractor did not know that this was wrong or why the inspector passed it. The fact remains that both were wrong. As a responsible contractor they should be willing to stand behind their work and make it right.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:28 AM   #109
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Question about changing a service panel (breaker box)


The house is in WI. I just called the inspector and he said that WI doesn't have any such requirement on the number of cables that can go in the pipe (actually said I could fill it all the way and it wouldn't be a problem) and that the only thing he was really concerned with was access to the raceway.

He assured me there is absolutely no fire hazard here and denied this reading/interpretation of the code.

Last edited by Bradeno; 02-27-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:33 AM   #110
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Well again he is showing his ignorance of both real hazards and the NEC that they should be enforcing.

Does WI have any building codes they enforce?
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:35 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Well again he is showing his ignorance of both real hazards and the NEC that they should be enforcing.

Does WI have any building codes they enforce?
Oh yes, believe me, they do.

And they have no qualms about enforcing them.

So, I have difficulty understanding why he would let this fly if it really weren't ok since he doesn't seem to have any special affinity for me or this project and loves to point out hazards and make lists
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:46 AM   #112
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Question about changing a service panel (breaker box)


I'm in WI...SE WI to be exact. Just so you are aware, a master electrician does not have to do the work. A master electrician with the backing of a licensed electrical contractor must pull the permit. Once the permit is pulled, anyone who the EC employs can perform the work. That will somewhat change April 1st of this year. Then, anyone performing electrical work MUST be licensed by the state. There are a number of types of licenses, but everyone must have one.

The reasons are a little unclear, but from what I understand, they are going to eliminate the need for an EC to have a license in every individual community and simply have one license from the state.

If you are in the SE WI area, tell me which community and I can give you an idea of the inspector.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:48 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
I'm in WI...SE WI to be exact. Just so you are aware, a master electrician does not have to do the work. A master electrician with the backing of a licensed electrical contractor must pull the permit. Once the permit is pulled, anyone who the EC employs can perform the work. That will somewhat change April 1st of this year. Then, anyone performing electrical work MUST be licensed by the state. There are a number of types of licenses, but everyone must have one.

The reasons are a little unclear, but from what I understand, they are going to eliminate the need for an EC to have a license in every individual community and simply have one license from the state.

If you are in the SE WI area, tell me which community and I can give you an idea of the inspector.
I am not there. It is a city code that requires it to be a Master Electrician. Believe me, I tried this already I hope to have this house finished and on the market and sold (yeah right in this economy) by April 1st.

Last edited by Bradeno; 02-27-2013 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:21 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradeno View Post
I am not there. It is a city code that requires it to be a Master Electrician. Believe me, I tried this already I hope to have this house finished and on the market and sold (yeah right in this economy) by April 1st.
Now you see why we ask for your location. Nobody cares about your address, just your location. K-Buz is local to you and provided you some good info!! PM K-Buz the town and he may be able to help you further.

Keep us posted.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:42 AM   #115
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Question about changing a service panel (breaker box)


I'm trying to find some articles in our professional trade magazines to beef up the advice given here and to give the op some leverage .... here is one from Electrical Contracter Magazine. Last article in the series of questions being answered.

http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-s...dential-wiring
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:48 AM   #116
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Here is another with a graphic ...

http://ecmweb.com/qampa/stumped-code-2
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:00 AM   #117
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Now that we know where the house is .....

I pulled this from the Wisconsin state site located here ... it is an amendment to 312.5(c)

http://archive.org/stream/gov.wi.ele...rical_djvu.txt

Substitute the following wording for NEC 312.5 (C) Exception
(intro.):

Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetaUic sheaths shall be
permitted to enter an enclosure through one or more nonflexible
raceways of not less than 12 inches and not more than 10 feet in
length, provided all of the following conditions are met:

(2) Omission [nec 312.5 (C) exception]. NEC 312.5 (C) Excep-
tion paragraph (b) does not apply in Wisconsin.

(3) Fitting [NEC 312.5(C) EXCEPTION]. Substitute the following
wording for NEC 312.5 (C) Exception paragraph (c):

A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the
cable(s) from abrasion.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #118
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I noticed it removes the requirement for a surface mounted box in the intro paragraph.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:16 PM   #119
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So it is basically just fine then based on those changes? An inch on the pvc isnt a hazard just a uniform standard.

Or are there still too many wires in it?
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:27 PM   #120
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No ... nothing has changed that keeps your installation from being non-compliant. It is still in violation of Wisconsin code. Read the amendment I posted ... you seem to be stuck on this idea that you can make yourself believe it is not in your opinion a hazard so it's ok to leave it.

The inspector passed it so you can move on if you want. If someone told you it isn't a hazard would that change anything as far as the installation being code compliant?

BTW the inspecter IMO is uncertain but sees no hazard so he is passing it. I also think he knows what NEC article to reference by the fact he is requireing access to the sleeve of pvc. Unfortunately he is requireing you to do something that is not required by Wisconsin state code amendments to NEC 312.5(c).

Look I'm done here I don't know what else to provide to help you with this delimma of yours .... jeez engineers drive me nuts......

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