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Old 02-15-2010, 09:38 PM   #16
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Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


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Originally Posted by joed View Post
hookoodooku gave you the answer. Manufacturer specs for a 10 amp load most likely specify a max circuit protection of less than 30 amps.
well, I don't think the code deals with "most likely" so no, he did not give me an answer. He proposed a possibility. I have my doubts as it being limited to a certain sized breaker but again, that is just my guess. So, without any real information, there is no reason to believe hooku;s guess is any more correct than mine.


so, you got something in the code that would prevent hooking a 10 amp rated load to a 30 amp rated circuit in this situation, especially since we have not been told there is a max OCPD listed?

if not, all you have is a guess based on nothing.




maybe the OP will come back and provide the necessary information to determine if anything other than a DPDT switch would be needed.. And, if something is needed, there are several options without installing a sub-panel.

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Old 02-15-2010, 09:48 PM   #17
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Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Cord and plug appliances have the maximum circuit amperage rating implied by the style of plug. Receptacle styles are limited to circuits of certain amperages for example the standard 120 volt receptacle (for straight flat parallel prongs) may be installed on a circuit of at most 20 amps.

Appliances to be wired directly (hard wired) may have the maximum circuit rating in their instructions.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:16 PM   #18
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Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


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Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post

Appliances to be wired directly (hard wired) may have the maximum circuit rating in their instructions.
rarely.

Most often, only if there is a motor load is there a max OCPD listed. We don't know if there is a motor load or anything else.

you guys arguing this point would be the same as saying it would be illegal to use something that draws 6 amps or less on a 20 amp circuit. Without support, you are simply off base. If you can find support in the code, bring it on. I am not saying definitively I am correct but you guys are just spouting things off the top of your heads without any facts and without any supporting documentation.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:18 PM   #19
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Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


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Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
Cord and plug appliances have the maximum circuit amperage rating implied by the style of plug. Receptacle styles are limited to circuits of certain amperages for example the standard 120 volt receptacle (for straight flat parallel prongs) may be installed on a circuit of at most 20 amps.

Appliances to be wired directly (hard wired) may have the maximum circuit rating in their instructions.
and btw; 99+% of household devices use a 15 amp plug yet there is no problem with connecting it to a 20 amp circuit.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:28 PM   #20
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Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


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I see no problem with a subpanel that is 220 volt only, that is, no neutrals coming in, no neutrals on the branch circuits, nothing connected to the neutral bus bar, all the breakers are double wide pairs with handles tied together.
I understand that it would work... but would it meet code?

I wanted a subpanel that feed from a single poll 30 amp breaker with #10/2 to feed both legs of a small 60 amp subpanel. I only needed two breaker in the panel, one to feed a 20 amp circuit to power tools and 15 amps to power lights in the corner of the basement.

When I talked to my inspector about it, he shot it down requiring that the subpanel be fed with 4 wires, not 3.

I realize this is a different setup, but wondered if some requirement that a neutral be included in a sub-panel might nix the use of one in this case as well.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:41 PM   #21
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Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


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and btw; 99+% of household devices use a 15 amp plug yet there is no problem with connecting it to a 20 amp circuit.
But the 20 amp outlet is designed for a 15 amp plug.

By contrast, if the fireplace uses a standard 240v plug, it is likely a 15 amp 240v plug, and that can't fit into any standard 30 amp or greater receptical can it?


But otherwise you are right, without more information from the OP on the specifications of the fireplace, nothing can be said for certain. I know in my case, I was pointing out that before you simply use a DPDT switch, you've got to make sure it's ok to connect this 10 amp load to a 30 amp circuit.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:01 PM   #22
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Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


fine, if you want to play this sillly game. Take a 3 amp rated appliance and put it in a 15 amp circuit. That breaker is 500% of the appliance load. You still happy wiht that? plugging a 10 amp appliance into a 30 amp circuit is only a 300% increase. Wouldn't that inherently be safer than the 3 amp appliance in a 15 amp circuit?

and the correct answer is NO. If the 3 amp appliance is designed to be plugged into a 15 amp circuit, it is no less safe than the heater being hooked to a 30 amp circuit but we still have no idea if the heater can be connected to a 30 amp circuit so the 500% over rating may actually be considered to be safer.

we just do not have the information to make what joed seems to think is a definitive statement.

Quote:
By contrast, if the fireplace uses a standard 240v plug, it is likely a 15 amp 240v plug, and that can't fit into any standard 30 amp or greater plug can it?
IF, IF, IF

we have NO idea what rating the plug has or if it even has a plug.



Quote:
I know in my case, I was pointing out that before you simply use a DPDT switch, you've got to make sure it's ok to connect this 10 amp load to a 30 amp circuit.
I have no problem with what you said. Joed was the one that seemed to think your suggested possibility (and I never said it wasn't a possibility myself) was definitive.

bottom line:

we do not know if the appliance can or cannot be connected to a 30 amp circuit.

so, if and when the OP gives us the requisite info, we can then determine if a supplementary OCPD would need to be installed in the tap that is run to the heater.

and no, we do not need a sub-panel. We can install a fuse or breaker in a box designed just for them and tap off from the AC circuit and run the heater.

a transfer switch such as a DPDT switch (with proper load and or HP ratings of course) would still be suggested to prevent concurrent use of the 2 appliances.

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