Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-15-2010, 11:32 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


I want to install a 220 volt electric fireplace in a room which is ajacent to a utility room containing a furnace and air conditioning unit.
I would like to use the 220 volt supply to the air conditioning compressor as the supply for this electric furnace also, but I realize they cannot be operated simultaneously.
How can I wire this combination up so that only one of these appliances can be used at one time, as one will be used in winter and the other in summer?
It will save me having to run a separate 220 volt supply for the fireplace--a situation which is all but impossible.
Can a three way toggle switch be used, and if so, where would I buy one?

Kelowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 11:53 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,794
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Maybe something like the Levitron 1288 I - a DPDT switch


vsheetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 12:44 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 270
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


What is the required amperage for the fireplace? Is it the same as the a/c? I would not bother with this setup. It can be done with a double throw two pole switch but it is likely to cost as much for the switch as getting a new two pole breaker with the proper sized wire for the fireplace. This is a common question around here from people wanting to share 220 volt appliances on the same circuit. The right way to do it is to run a new circuit.
teamo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 01:05 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Running a new circuit cannot be done because this is in a condominium and it's physically impossible to do so without extensive damage to the interior of the condo.
The fireplace requires 10 amps at 220 volts.
The main breaker which supplies the a/c compressor is rated at 30 amps.
Please note the two appliances will not be operated at the same time.
The fireplace will not be used in summer months, and the air conditioner will not be used in winter months.

Last edited by Kelowna; 02-15-2010 at 01:19 PM.
Kelowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 02:08 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,965
Rewards Points: 2,026
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Can you put a small subpanel for the existing 220 volt circuit in the utility room with one branch circuit (220 volt, double wide ganged breaker) for a receptacle the fireplace unit plugs into and another for the AC?

The fireplace unit by itself might not be rated for plugging into a 30 amp. circuit; most portable appliances require 15 or 20 amp. circuits.

If you absolutely positively must set it up so no one can turn on both at the same time, you can shop around for a panel and interlock plate/strip/cam that prevents two breaker sets strategically positioned in the panel from being flipped on at the same time.

As far as a 3 way switch goes (if you want to wire it up that way) the switch has to have the current handling capacity of the AC unit.
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.

Last edited by AllanJ; 02-15-2010 at 02:17 PM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 02:17 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Have you considered what type of circuit breakers and minimum conductors are required for the two loads?

There is a relatively complex process used to size the conductors and size the breaker for an A/C unit.

It's entirely possible that either the existing conductors or the circuit breaker isn't sized appropriate for the fire place.

http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/c-electrical-63803/
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 02:21 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
Can you put a small subpanel for the existing 220 volt circuit in the utility room with one branch circuit (220 volt, double wide ganged breaker) for a receptacle the fireplace unit plugs into and another for the AC?

The fireplace unit by itself might not be rated for plugging into a 30 amp. circuit; most portable appliances require 15 or 20 amp. circuits.

If you absolutely positively must set it up so no one can turn on both at the same time, you can shop around for a panel and interlock plate/strip/cam that prevents two breaker sets strategically positioned in the panel from being flipped on at the same time.

As far as a 3 way switch goes (if you want to wire it up that way) the switch has to have the current handling capacity of the AC unit.
AllenJ,

Sorry for submiting pretty much a double post, I was still working on my when you hit submit.


I too had though about a sub-panel, but if the A/C unit here is wired up like mine, there is no neutral conductor, just #10/2 for the two hot legs of a 240v load. Assuming the A/C is supplied the same way (2 conductors, not three), is there a code compliant way of using that for a sub-panel?
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 02:52 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Thanks a bunch for the helpful feedback so far.
I really appreciate your time, trouble, and collective wisdom.
If there are more ideas on this, please don't hesitate to comment.
Kelowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 03:26 PM   #9
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 7,855
Rewards Points: 2,504
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


The sub panel is the only solution. The 10 amp fireplace can not be put on the 30 amp circuit.
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 05:46 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,965
Rewards Points: 2,026
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


I see no problem with a subpanel that is 220 volt only, that is, no neutrals coming in, no neutrals on the branch circuits, nothing connected to the neutral bus bar, all the breakers are double wide pairs with handles tied together.
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 06:25 PM   #11
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
The sub panel is the only solution. The 10 amp fireplace can not be put on the 30 amp circuit.
why?



and if you come up with a legit reason it can't, I do have a possible solution without a subpanel.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 07:46 PM   #12
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,368
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


These are called non-coincidental loads. Having them both on the same circuit should not present any overloading problems.

We have installed A/C units on the same circuits as Baseboard heaters knowing that both would not be operating at the same time.

Some jurisdictions may require a double throw switch in such scenarios in any case.
__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 08:21 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 608
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
These are called non-coincidental loads. Having them both on the same circuit should not present any overloading problems....
I don't think there is a question about overloading. I think there is a question of if the 30 amp breaker is SMALL enough for the fireplace that only requires 10 amps. I could easily see where the specifications for the fireplace require a 20 amp breaker MAX. If so, then it would seem that a sub-panel of some sort is required somewhere in the circuit so that you could protect the fireplace with the 20 amp required breaker.

If the fireplace can be sourced from a 30 amp rated circuit, then the options obviously open up to various switches.
HooKooDooKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 08:28 PM   #14
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


I think I got the fix in but I need joed to tell my why it is not legal to have the fireplace on the 30 amp circuit. I'm not saying it isn't but unless the manufacturer specs a less than 30 amp circuit for the fireplace, I cannot think of any other reason. I was thinking he might have something floating around in his head that would make it illegal.


even if it does have to be on a less than 30 amp breaker, there are things that can be done other than a sub, depending on the building layout.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 08:32 PM   #15
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 7,855
Rewards Points: 2,504
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Question about 3 way 220 volt toggle switches


hookoodooku gave you the answer. Manufacturer specs for a 10 amp load most likely specify a max circuit protection of less than 30 amps.

__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to power a 120/240 volt 3 phase oven in a building with 120/240 volt single phase wantsomegetsome Electrical 9 05-04-2009 10:49 AM
Basement Renovation Question KUIPORNG Remodeling 234 08-26-2008 08:19 AM
adding an additional light to 2 3-way switches basement_guy Electrical 10 07-20-2008 09:23 AM
3 switches 1 light. need 2 lights 2 switches. Im desprete s richards Electrical 6 07-19-2008 03:18 PM
hrv question indep HVAC 3 07-17-2008 10:39 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.