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Old 04-20-2013, 10:25 AM   #61
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I am a Marine Corpse
Wow! So we get all this great advice and experience from a ghost!

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Old 04-20-2013, 10:31 AM   #62
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........and I'm old....I cut my teeth on a PDP-1134....
Well, I guess that's what experience does to us.....makes us old. I remember the PDP-1134 very well. I spent a couple of years using and maintaining a couple of those. My first home computer was actually a home built and modified Apple computer. Then the 8088 machines followed by the 8086, 80186, 80286.......etc. Actually the 8086 preceded the 8088, but the 16 bit support chips were expensive, so the 8088 was built so that 8 bit (cheaper) chips could be used.

I guess that I must come across as one of those "know it all" types, but actually, I don't feel that way at all. I very much appreciate the knowledge and experiences of others and enjoy sharing what took so many years of effort to learn. Maybe that is why I appreciate the professionals so much who willingly give so much of their time sharing their knowledge and experience on this forum.

Yes, I am old, but I still enjoy sharing and learning new things.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:34 AM   #63
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Wow! So we get all this great advice and experience from a ghost!
OOOPS!! Sorry about the typo. I told you that I was old!

But then, I guess you never made a typo. Must be lack of experience.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:55 AM   #64
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Impressive credentials!! I am a Marine Corps combat experienced veteran. I have written software in Cobal, Fortran, Basic, C, C++, and Java. I have done a lot of AutoCAD, I have designed and built computer system boards (motherboards), I have worked in law enforcement, I have built houses and put in the electrical and plumbing, I have done a little bit of Commercial wiring. A couple of years ago, I started learning to weld. TIG, Stick, MIG, and O/A. I rebuild automobile transmissions and engines. Oh yea, and I AM an engineer.

It sounds like we have a lot in common. Maybe we should get together and talk.
Over a beer or two of course......
Fortran? Most likley Forran 77. Cobal? One of the first computer languages used for bean counting....never did any but I understand that its still in use
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:02 AM   #65
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One thing that needs to be humbly pointed out....while I might be able to do most of the tasks that the trades do.....I would starve if I tried to make a living at it.

Take last night...I was ruuning some RG6 and Cat6 from 'data central' to a new location. A trade would already be home and sucking down his second beer by the time I had my 1st hole drilled and finished my 3rd beer. What may take a trade 1 hour, takes me 4 hrs and 3 trips to home depot.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:27 AM   #66
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Over a beer or two of course......
Fortran? Most likley Forran 77. Cobal? One of the first computer languages used for bean counting....never did any but I understand that its still in use
Of course!!

It might have been Fortran 77....its been a long time since I did that.....probably early '70s.

I understand about the slow part. Todays task is to repair the air suspension on a 2005 Lincoln Town Car. This involves replacing the air springs on the rear. Tomorrow, I have to remove the head on a '94 Mercury Topaz and replace the leaking head gasket. I repaired the automatic transmission on that car last week.

In the electrical vein, I have to run a 50 amp welder circuit from the main panel to the garage.

It just takes longer to do these things than it did a few years ago. I keep trying to relegate myself to the supervisory role, but it seems that the young people of today have an aversion to physical labor.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:05 PM   #67
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OK. Here is your chance. Tell us why we should care what you say you believe. Tell us about your many years of work experience and the thousands of people upon whose experience your knowledge is based.
....
David either I think you misunderstood my comment to mpoulton or Iíll have to admit your comment is going over my head. Maybe there are too many responses to responses here for my little brain!LOL

He said:

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... The best engineers I know have detailed knowledge of most areas of technology,...
and I then said:

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I'm sure you're an honest guy mpoulton but I don't believe there is any way in the world the above statement could be correct. The amount of information out there today precludes that.
All I meant was that (I think) it is impossible for even superman to have that much detailed knowledge because there is an (almost) infinite amount of detailed knowledge today to know. This is not a slight against engineers or electricians or anybody in any way.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:21 PM   #68
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David either I think you misunderstood my comment to mpoulton or Iíll have to admit your comment is going over my head. Maybe there are too many responses to responses here for my little brain!LOL
OK, I guess that I misunderstood your response. I apologize. I just get weary of people criticizing others who might know less than them rather than sharing the knowledge that has been acquired over the years.

I readily acknowledge that there are a lot of people who know a lot of things that I do not know. I also know that I have learned a lot in a long and busy career that spans more than 50 years.

Lets share and support each other rather than criticize those who know less than we do.

I am inspired by the professionals on this forum who do that every day in a display of amazing patience with those of us who do not have their knowledge.

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Old 04-20-2013, 12:26 PM   #69
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I am inspired by the professionals on this forum who do that every day in a display of amazing patience with those of us who do not have their knowledge.
The hardest thing is sharing the proper knowledge, just to be responded with i don't care about code, blah blah blah responses, those are the ones that make this unrewarding in trying to help someone out.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:36 PM   #70
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The hardest thing is sharing the proper knowledge, just to be responded with i don't care about code, blah blah blah responses, those are the ones that make this unrewarding in trying to help someone out.
I understand. I too experience that when someone wants a 10 second answer to a 20 minute question.

I sometimes respond with: OK, Sit down, get out your pen and paper, call your wife and tell her that you will be late. Now, lets get started.

I try to understand that, not only do they not understand the answer, they don't understand the question.

Patience is a virtue. (Just keep saying it over and over).
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:34 PM   #71
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All I meant was that (I think) it is impossible for even superman to have that much detailed knowledge because there is an (almost) infinite amount of detailed knowledge today to know. This is not a slight against engineers or electricians or anybody in any way.
"Detailed" doesn't mean "100% exhaustive". I mean that these guys know enough to carry on an advanced technical discussion about the subject, and to solve routine engineering problems in those fields. Not that they can single-handedly make cutting edge innovations in those fields. Continuing with the example of my good friend from college, he can diagnose and resolve any problem with a diesel engine, but not design a new one from scratch. He can do mechanical engineering calculations to design a farm implement or lab apparatus (and then fabricate it), but not design the Sydney Opera House roof structure. When it comes to electronics though, there is literally nothing I wouldn't put past him - from semiconductor design to firmware, and everything in between.

No field of engineering is actually isolated from any other. It's all just applied science, and all science is just applied math. Every field of engineering is interrelated enough with other disciplines that narrow-minded engineers inhibit the problem solving process since they don't understand how their design decisions affect other aspects of the project. There are plenty of those engineers out there. The great ones are uncommon, because it requires a degree of intelligence that hardly anyone has. Some of these guys I met while working in the physics department (many of whom were double majors in physics plus an engineering field) were nearly inhumanly smart.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:34 PM   #72
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One thing that needs to be humbley pointed out....while I might be able to do most of the tasks that the trdes do.....I would starve if I tried to make a living at it.

Take last night...I was ruuning some RG6 and Cat6 from 'data central' to a new location. A trade would already be home and sucking down his second beer by the time I had my 1st hole drilled and finished my 3rd beer. What may take a trade 1 hour, takes me 4 hrs and 3 trips to home depot.
I'm on board w/ that 100%. I can do quite a bit but at an exponentially slower rate than the pros. Heck even when I go through a project multiple times in my head, take a list & sketch w/ me to lowes I still end up changing my mind atleast once and making return trips. Oh well, just have that much more respect for the speedy pros who share their time & knowledge here w/ us slow poke DIY'ers.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:39 PM   #73
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I'm on board w/ that 100%. I can do quite a bit but at an exponentially slower rate than the pros. Heck even when I go through a project multiple times in my head, take a list & sketch w/ me to lowes I still end up changing my mind atleast once and making return trips. Oh well, just have that much more respect for the speedy pros who share their time & knowledge here w/ us slow poke DIY'ers.
Even though I'm a professional Electrician, i'm also a DIY like everyone else here, I do get exposed to more aspects of every trade, so I do have a lot of advantages over the suit and tie guy, in a nut shell, most people can handle a basic electrical job, but you have to know your limits and accept that and leave some items to the more experienced...
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #74
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Ö
One of my problems is that many "educated" folks look down on trades people as if they are somehow inferior, or less intelligent.
Schooling does NOT = intelligence.
I wanted to just leave this thread alone since we seem to be meandering all over the place- but your statement above really bothers me. It really makes me sad so I wanted to say something. If anyone looks down on trades people then they very probably are a little on the dumb side. I would bet they are superficial ill-informed people for sure.

If someone enters into any field, occupation, profession, etc., for whatever reason (and I really believe most of us fall into slots waiting close-by for us at a young age), and likes what they do every day, and can make enough money at it to live comfortably (yes subjective), and continues that career - then they are very smart! It is very subjective and would vary from individual to individual.

EE have taken math/physics courses that would make the very best electricianís head explode.

As far as the statement above that the math and physics an engineer needs would make the very best electricians head explode Ė balderdash! That is biased opinion that cannot be backed up by any facts and does in fact seem condescending. Of course, some folks (including electricians) might need some prep to take those courses if they have been out of school for a long time, or havenít had certain preparatory work for those courses previously in school, but thatís all they would need.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:32 PM   #75
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I wanted to just leave this thread alone since we seem to be meandering all over the place- but your statement above really bothers me. It really makes me sad so I wanted to say something. If anyone looks down on trades people then they very probably are a little on the dumb side. I would bet they are superficial ill-informed people for sure.

If someone enters into any field, occupation, profession, etc., for whatever reason (and I really believe most of us fall into slots waiting close-by for us at a young age), and likes what they do every day, and can make enough money at it to live comfortably (yes subjective), and continues that career - then they are very smart! It is very subjective and would vary from individual to individual.

EE have taken math/physics courses that would make the very best electricianís head explode.

As far as the statement above that the math and physics an engineer needs would make the very best electricians head explode Ė balderdash! That is biased opinion that cannot be backed up by any facts and does in fact seem condescending. Of course, some folks (including electricians) might need some prep to take those courses if they have been out of school for a long time, or havenít had certain preparatory work for those courses previously in school, but thatís all they would need.
Ok....here is a simple one....show me the differential equation that describes the discharge rate across a capacitor. Hint, the same equation is used in chemistry.

Can you do a laplace transform?

Familiar with Maxwell equations? They relate directly with power transmission.

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