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Old 04-19-2013, 11:27 AM   #46
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Because some idiot will actually try it. And do it with the receptacle he installed incorrectly....

Educational for who? If your a master electrician you should be playing these games with others like you. Not the general public.
Nonsense.

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Old 04-19-2013, 11:35 AM   #47
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There is a lot of talk about an EE not being able to do an electricians job. Have any of you electricians ever tried to do an EE's job? Ever tried designing a computer system board? What a joke that would be.

We all have different educational and job training backgrounds. Just because you have run into some "holier than thou" EE somewhere along the line doesn't mean that we are all dumb asses. I have in fact met a couple of master electricians with questionable IQs.

Sharing what we know helps everybody. Sharing attitudes helps nobody.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:45 PM   #48
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Because some idiot will actually try it. And do it with the receptacle he installed incorrectly.
Good thing you did not use your real name on this forum.


Educational for who? If your a master electrician you should be playing these games with others like you. Not the general public.

JMO.
your standing in a bathtub full of water.... naked ...



Yep i am absolutly sure they are LINING up to try this .....but thank you for your concern .... and i am sure that with every suggestion you make here you do instruct the posters to make sure the breaker is off while taking your instructions ...



and for all the others .....that may ponder the possibilities ...


PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:23 PM   #49
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here is a question ... FUN one ..

your standing in a bathtub full of water.... naked ...
... [/B]
Why naked? This tells me you are preverted!

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...you put your right hand "IN" the neutral side of the GFI ...and your Left hand in the Hot side ( for the DIY ) would the GFI trip ...or would you get electrocuted ??[/B]
Why don't you try that? If you don't post back we will know the answer!

LOLOLOLOL
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:08 PM   #50
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The thing about electrical engineers, or engineers in general is they usually only are good at what they specifically do. If their job doesn't utilize GFI protection, then they probably don't know much about it. I'll bet ya Speedy isn't too far off of his 90% statement.
Wow! I think you hit it right square on the head. I was a software engineer for over 32 years and I worked with EE's ,mechanical engineers, software engineers, etc. on many many different projects over the years.

".. usually only are good at what they specifically do..."


I couldn't agree more. You may find someone who could tell you everything there is to know about operating system design or compiler design but might not even know what firmware is. Or an EE who knows everything there is about antenna design but knows very little about anything else.

Guess the good news is our technology is so advanced that specialization is mandatory.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:59 PM   #51
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".. usually only are good at what they specifically do..."


And, of course, electricians are good at what they specifically do and also the things that they don't specifically do.

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Old 04-19-2013, 09:07 PM   #52
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Wow! I think you hit it right square on the head. I was a software engineer for over 32 years and I worked with EE's ,mechanical engineers, software engineers, etc. on many many different projects over the years.

".. usually only are good at what they specifically do..."


I couldn't agree more. You may find someone who could tell you everything there is to know about operating system design or compiler design but might not even know what firmware is. Or an EE who knows everything there is about antenna design but knows very little about anything else.

Guess the good news is our technology is so advanced that specialization is mandatory.
I think this is often true for average engineers. It is definitely not true for the best engineers. The best engineers I know have detailed knowledge of most areas of technology, and supreme knowledge of their specific fields of work. For example, an EE/CE who design nuclear powerplant valve controllers. He knows everything there is to know about valve control algorithms, embedded control systems, explosion-proof electronics, and the other specifics of his work. He also fixes cars, is a capable diesel engine mechanic, builds mechanical equipment, can run a backhoe, knows advanced chemistry, has been a nuclear physics researcher, amateur gunsmith, and explosives tech. And yes, the guy can wire a building: we wired our research lab together in college.

Some engineers are narrow. Others grew up on farms, and they can do anything.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:43 PM   #53
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... The best engineers I know have detailed knowledge of most areas of technology...
I'm sure you're an honest guy mpoulton but I don't believe there is any way in the world the above statement could be correct. The amount of information out there today precludes that.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:32 AM   #54
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And, of course, electricians are good at what they specifically do and also the things that they don't specifically do.

The spectrum of what most good electricians do is pretty wide.

One of my problems is that many "educated" folks look down on trades people as if they are somehow inferior, or less intelligent.
Schooling does NOT = intelligence.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:01 AM   #55
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Schooling does NOT = intelligence.
I agree. I have often stated that there is no relationship whatsoever between education and intelligence. Some of the dumbest people that I have ever met have PhD. degrees.
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Old 04-20-2013, 08:27 AM   #56
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I'm sure you're an honest guy mpoulton but I don't believe there is any way in the world the above statement could be correct. The amount of information out there today precludes that.
OK. Here is your chance. Tell us why we should care what you say you believe. Tell us about your many years of work experience and the thousands of people upon whose experience your knowledge is based.

Nobody has more respect for tradesmen than I do, especially electricians.
I don't think that anybody works harder, knows more, or has to put up with more crap than professional electricians. They deserve every ounce of respect that we can give them.

Engineering is a much broader field than that of electrical power systems and installation of electrical systems. Most engineers specialize in one particular area much like an electrician might focus on a particular type of service or system.

In my more than 50 years of work experience, I have worked with thousands of people, many of them were/are electricians. The ones who were the most successful were those who respected the knowledge and experience of those around them. The ones who didn't usually had the most problems and least success.

A good, healthy, vigorous discussion/argument is just that . Healthy and good for all involved, but to disrespect or put down someone because of their job title is DUMB.

I wonder who designs those power systems that electricians install, or the test equipment and tools they use to install them. Maybe engineers?

I would not like to try to get along without our hard working electricians or our engineers.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:56 AM   #57
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OK. Here is your chance. Tell us why we should care what you say you believe. Tell us about your many years of work experience and the thousands of people upon whose experience your knowledge is based.

Nobody has more respect for tradesmen than I do, especially electricians.
I don't think that anybody works harder, knows more, or has to put up with more crap than professional electricians. They deserve every ounce of respect that we can give them.

Engineering is a much broader field than that of electrical power systems and installation of electrical systems. Most engineers specialize in one particular area much like an electrician might focus on a particular type of service or system.

In my more than 50 years of work experience, I have worked with thousands of people, many of them were/are electricians. The ones who were the most successful were those who respected the knowledge and experience of those around them. The ones who didn't usually had the most problems and least success.

A good, healthy, vigorous discussion/argument is just that . Healthy and good for all involved, but to disrespect or put down someone because of their job title is DUMB.

I wonder who designs those power systems that electricians install, or the test equipment and tools they use to install them. Maybe engineers?

I would not like to try to get along without our hard working electricians or our engineers.
David, I'm not sure that is such a good idea.

This place is full of keyboard commandos.....this is the internet.....for all we know, JoeCaption has never even picked up a hammer....for all we know, his idea of a stud is competition at the bar.

Not everyone can be an expert like me....design control systems....PLC programmer extraordinaire....write PC software....Autocad..... awesome mechanical fab abilities...great woodworking talents.....talk anyone into handcuff....able to book a DUI in record time.....Jack of all trades, master of many.....

Proof? Click on the links in my signature.....

Yes guys...I'm awesome...but I try to stay humble.....bragging is not in my nature....
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:00 AM   #58
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Not everyone can be an expert like me....design control systems....PLC programmer extraordinaire....write PC software....Autocad..... awesome mechanical fab abilities...great woodworking talents.....talk anyone into handcuff....able to book a DUI in record time.....Jack of all trades, master of many.....
That's all well and good......but are you an engineer?
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:12 AM   #59
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That's all well and good......but are you an engineer?
Yes.....Computer Science Engineering........and I'm old....I cut my teeth on a PDP-1134....with core memory....my first assemble code was on an 8088 processor.....electrical background is analog, digital, RF and Microwave....now I do control systems......deal with VFD's....big motors and lots of 480 power....the residential power thing is a learning process for me.


BTW....I'm hoping that my sarcastic humor 'attempt was obvious......
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:15 AM   #60
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Not everyone can be an expert like me....design control systems....PLC programmer extraordinaire....write PC software....Autocad..... awesome mechanical fab abilities...great woodworking talents.....talk anyone into handcuff....able to book a DUI in record time.....Jack of all trades, master of many.....
Impressive credentials!! I am a Marine Corps combat experienced veteran. I have written software in Cobal, Fortran, Basic, C, C++, and Java. I have done a lot of AutoCAD, I have designed and built computer system boards (motherboards), I have worked in law enforcement, I have built houses and put in the electrical and plumbing, I have done a little bit of Commercial wiring. A couple of years ago, I started learning to weld. TIG, Stick, MIG, and O/A. I rebuild automobile transmissions and engines. Oh yea, and I AM an engineer.

It sounds like we have a lot in common. Maybe we should get together and talk.


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