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Old 04-17-2013, 09:30 PM   #16
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skinny guy but if you have the LBs that is resistance as the electric flows you would drop first ..and probably not trip...short piece of wire jumped will trip it,radio into the water blow dryer...stuff like that..

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Old 04-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #17
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I assumed roughly the same resistance hand-to-hand as hand-to-foot. That's an approximation, and actually ignores skin resistance which is more significant than body tissue resistance. The contact point resistance at each hand will be much higher than the "contact" resistance between the feet and the water. In reality, I would expect more current to exit the feet than the neutral hand, assuming the tub water is grounded and the water is conductive.

The water itself might be non-conductive if it's very pure, but that's not likely. Tap water is plenty conductive enough, although not as conductive as the inside of a person.
I got you, we're on the same page.

I guess I don't understand why they're saying the GFCI circuit wouldn't trip then.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:45 PM   #18
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Great thread. I now have a better understanding of GFCI's.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:01 AM   #19
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I don't really know what you mean by that. I assumed roughly the same resistance hand-to-hand as hand-to-foot. That's an approximation, and actually ignores skin resistance which is more significant than body tissue resistance. The contact point resistance at each hand will be much higher than the "contact" resistance between the feet and the water. In reality, I would expect more current to exit the feet than the neutral hand, assuming the tub water is grounded and the water is conductive.

The water itself might be non-conductive if it's very pure, but that's not likely. Tap water is plenty conductive enough, although not as conductive as the inside of a person.
The key issue is with super pure water it will NOT conduct any electricty at all but once you put inpures like salt then it will really increase the chance of getting conducted ( hook up in some way )

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I got you, we're on the same page.

I guess I don't understand why they're saying the GFCI circuit wouldn't trip then.
C'est simple ., If the supply conductor and return conductor ( line and netural ) going thru the GFCI or RCD and read balanced it will not trip but once it get unbalanced it will trip them.

Just take a jumprope ( for a simple demo ) fold it in half and pull it tight and you should see equal length and tenison that the same idea with RCD or GFCI will not trip., Now have a person or something hang it on one side of the rope it don't matter which side and see how the rope twist then it become unblanced which it will trip the RCD or GFCI due the person or something hanging on the rope and force it off balanced.

That is kinda rough example but I hope other members may have better idea what it is.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:24 AM   #20
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Hopefully they'd understand the principles of how electricity flows, which is what this question is mostly about.
My point is most electrical engineering and construction electrical are two VERY different things.


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So you are saying no electricity would flow through the water? Why not?
When did I say that?
But to answer, no. Some current would flow but not nearly enough to trip a breaker. Even dirty water is not conductive enough to cause a short or even simply trip a breaker.
Most people have a drastic misconception of the whole water/electricity relationship.
I do think there would eventually be enough fault current to trip the GFI. Although in this pretty much impossible scenario it's hard to tell.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:51 AM   #21
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Some posters are not differentiating between a breaker tripping versus a GFCI tripping.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:39 AM   #22
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C'est simple ., If the supply conductor and return conductor ( line and netural ) going thru the GFCI or RCD and read balanced it will not trip but once it get unbalanced it will trip them.
I understand the principle. Maybe some actual numbers will help. I guess I'm surprised that people are saying only a tiny amount of electricity will flow through the water in this example. My guess is that it would be enough to trip the GFCI, but you guys are saying no, so....
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:00 AM   #23
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Nothing, as long as you wear a hat.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:19 AM   #24
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here is a question ... FUN one ..

your standing in a bathtub full of water.... naked ... you put your right hand "IN" the neutral side of the GFI ...and your Left hand in the Hot side ( for the DIY ) would the GFI trip ...or would you get electrocuted ??


AND WHY !!!
They should pull your license for posting this stuff on a DIY forum.

If you want to show off go here www.electriciantalk.com
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:12 PM   #25
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They should pull your license for posting this stuff on a DIY forum.

If you want to show off go here www.electriciantalk.com

why ? its educational ..... not showing off ... it was posed in a class i took ... and really helped and brought good discussion ...
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:37 PM   #26
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you put your right hand "IN" the neutral side of the GFI ...and your Left hand in the Hot side
My question is why is that reversed ?

When you stand in front of a GFCI installed ground pin down, the neutral is on the left and hot is on the right. So, to follow the instructions you would be crossing one hand over the other. Based on the spacing most people would end up with a firm contact at the wrists.

Is that part of a trick question, or just mis-leading information ?
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:08 PM   #27
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My question is why is that reversed ?

When you stand in front of a GFCI installed ground pin down, the neutral is on the left and hot is on the right. So, to follow the instructions you would be crossing one hand over the other. Based on the spacing most people would end up with a firm contact at the wrists.

Is that part of a trick question, or just mis-leading information ?

commercial guys installed the outlet so the ground pin is up ...
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:09 PM   #28
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commercial guys installed the outlet so the ground pin is up ...
At least we are not talking about using PVC for airlines....
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:35 PM   #29
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My point is most electrical engineering and construction electrical are two VERY different things.
Lol. Who do you think designs gfci outlets?? What exactly do you think electrical engineers do? This I'd like to hear
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:43 PM   #30
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Lol. Who do you think designs gfci outlets?? What exactly do you think electrical engineers do? This I'd like to hear
That exactly proves the point that electrical engineers and commercial electricians do two completely different things?

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