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Old 11-06-2013, 07:17 PM   #16
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Qualified elericians please!, quibble thread


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Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
That article was supposed to show you that a hot wire does not need to be contact with a ground wire to have a shock hazard.
We can quibble over the meaning of "hot" or "live" depending on context - it should be obvious what I meant.

From your link - they're calling neutral "hot" and a metal workbench "live".
  1. The compressor circuit included two "hot" wires (black and neutral - the upper right two-pole breaker in the page top photo), and a bare ground wire that was overheated and burned.
  2. A metal workbench was connected to subpanel ground and was "live" when the compressor was running - owner got shocked

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Old 11-06-2013, 07:23 PM   #17
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You are confused...the white on the 2P breaker is not a neutral. It is a hot (ungrounded) conductor.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:29 PM   #18
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HE ALREADY SAID HE TURNED OFF ALL BREAKERS AND THE WIRE IS STILL LIVE. You can choose to believe him or not.



I may not be a licensed electrician, but I am certainly qualified to read English and draw logical conclusions. So far the OP has been advised to "turn off all breakers", that his ground is "bad", and that the fact that he is getting shocked does not imply it's connected to electricity. Battin' a thousand guys.

I am sorry that your ego was damaged by me talking about myself ..i did not quote anyone ... I merely comment on the OP's Post and if you choose to believe him or not the TITLE of the post is >>>

"qualified electricians please!"




not qualified and or electricians ...



I have no idea what your skill set is ... i have many guys working for me and do not always go to every job .... and do exactly this every day talking to customers and get a good idea what to pass on to the guys and when they are stuck i help them also ... if the picture is painted correctly ... i paint my own picture by asking the right questions not what people want to say ....


the WORD 'BAD ...means nothing to me ... unless the dog poops in the kitchen ...LMAO
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:01 PM   #19
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...the WORD 'BAD ...means nothing to me ... unless the dog poops in the kitchen ...
Is that bad? Really? Never thought about it! You could be absolutely right. Maybe thatís why no one wants to eat at my house?
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:39 PM   #20
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I am sorry that your ego was damaged by me talking about myself ..i did not quote anyone ...
Then don't put it in quotes. And believe me, you're not going to damage my ego.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #21
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Sounds like a lot of guessing without enough facts. Why not have the OP call in the licensed electrician and participate/watch what the licensed electrician does to solve the problem?
Then have him tell us the procedure that actually worked or identify the root of the problem.
There is no guessing as to what the problem is. Those of us that have come across this issue out in the field, or such as I and a couple of others that are on here, have come across on board our ships, it is not that hard of a problem to diagnose.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:16 PM   #22
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There is no guessing as to what the problem is. Those of us that have come across this issue out in the field, or such as I and a couple of others that are on here, have come across on board our ships, it is not that hard of a problem to diagnose.
Your clairvoyance amazes me!!!!! Solve his problem oh wise one.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:00 PM   #23
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Your clairvoyance amazes me!!!!! Solve his problem oh wise one.
Those of us that have read what the OP posted, have already figured out what the problem is. Half of it is the fact that the OP is not a licensed Electrician, the other is the tester they are using, and the technique of how they determined the line to supposedly having electric current on it, when it most likely does not.

But hey, we are not all like you, being the genius that you are and all that. This dead horse is time to be put out to pasture, and just let it go brrc.
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Old 11-07-2013, 03:49 AM   #24
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So basically, a guy gets a shock from his ground wire, and our best advice to him is that his ground is "bad"? Or possibly "compromised"? And also that it is not connected to anything hot? Oooo-kaaaay.
not "OUR" ....advice ...that is not a professional statement ...( "QUALIFIED" that is )

u mean like that ??? LOL




here is the clue to the issue ....

need help w/ my dryer hookup
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:16 AM   #25
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Those of us that have read what the OP posted, have already figured out what the problem is.
So, you know what the problem is, but you are not going to share for fear of being WRONG, ... AGAIN.

For those who have said that the OP turned off all of the circuit breakers, I still haven't seen the OP say that they were all off at the same time. The OP could have opened them one at a time.

Anyway, for the OP. When someone is being shocked, there are two things that need to be done in order to troubleshoot the problem:

1) Get a voltage reading between the two points using a quality (relatively low resistance) voltmeter to show the difference in potential that is causing the shock.

2) Begin isolating the source of the potential difference by removing possible sources, while bearing in mind that it may NOT be one source and that the source may NOT be in your residence (it could be another service or even the PoCo).

Last, when you have the previous two complete, you can start to try to figure out how the voltage is getting from the source(s) to the meter so it can be corrected.

This isn't voodoo, but without the right tools and approach, everyone here is shooting in the dark when they say they know what is happening in your situation.

Respectfully,

Mark
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:56 AM   #26
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not "OUR" ....advice
You can't tell that means "the forum's" ? Seriously?

OK, look, you seem to be someone that wants to tell it like it is, right? Like, if someone is not competent with electricity, then they should be harshly told not to mess with it, and hire an electrician, right?

Well you're not very good with words, nor with communicating advice. So maybe you should go back to electrical work and leave the forums and communications to people who do it better. Answers like yours do a disservice to those coming here for advice.

And by the way, there is not much more frustrating than coming here for advice and being dismissed out of hand. If you can't find a way to get your point across civilly and convincingly (as so many "experts" on this forum can't - and I use the word loosely because some of these people communicate so poorly it's impossible to tell if they know what they're talking about), then maybe you shouldn't participate.

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Old 11-07-2013, 07:02 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Those of us that have read what the OP posted, have already figured out what the problem is. Half of it is the fact that the OP is not a licensed Electrician, the other is the tester they are using, and the technique of how they determined the line to supposedly having electric current on it, when it most likely does not.

But hey, we are not all like you, being the genius that you are and all that. This dead horse is time to be put out to pasture, and just let it go brrc.
This tells us nothing. You are telling us about symptoms and nothing about what is causing them. The point is without more information and/or on site inspection there is little any of us can do

The fact that you resort to personal attacks when you are called out on your misstatements and misinformation must be problematic for you.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:09 AM   #28
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This tells us nothing. You are telling us about symptoms and nothing about what is causing them.
That's what he means. He doesn't know what's going on any more than you do. He simply found fault with the way the OP determined the problem, and is calling that the problem

It's quite annoying how some of the electricians around here talk, isn't it? Doesn't do much to endear the profession to the general population. In fact, part of the reason so many people don't like to call electricians to begin with. Homeowners like contractors that make them feel more comfortable, not make them feel more mystified and put off than when they started.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:13 AM   #29
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That's what he means. He doesn't know what's going on any more than you do. He simply found fault with the way the OP determined the problem, and is calling that the problem

It's quite annoying how some of the electricians around here talk, isn't it? Doesn't do much to endear the profession to the general population. In fact, part of the reason so many people don't like to call electricians to begin with. Homeowners like contractors that make them feel more comfortable, not make them feel more mystified and put off than when they started.
I'll agree there can be a civility gap at times, but it works both ways. Electricians get frustrated when the DIYers belittle the knowledge, skills and effort that it takes to be a professional tradesman and think they can do it just as well with a few weekends of experience. There is no way the DIYer can ever gain enough experience to really KNOW what they are doing. I've been doing this for 30+ years and have multiple engineering degrees and tradesman licenses and am still learning every day. If some people showed more respect for the effort it takes to become a licensed electrician (in many places, it's not much easier than becoming a doctor) we would probably be more respectful in return.

That's just one man's opinion, but I've seen it from both sides. I was a die-hard DIYer before I went to the trades for my profession. Back then I thought I knew a lot. I learned later how little I knew then and still am amazed by how much I still have to learn.

Also, that professional opinion was what the OP asked for.

Humbly,

Mark
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnc

That's what he means. He doesn't know what's going on any more than you do. He simply found fault with the way the OP determined the problem, and is calling that the problem

It's quite annoying how some of the electricians around here talk, isn't it? Doesn't do much to endear the profession to the general population. In fact, part of the reason so many people don't like to call electricians to begin with. Homeowners like contractors that make them feel more comfortable, not make them feel more mystified and put off than when they started.
You were arguing with me well before Greg entered this opinion. The OP gave some very vague descriptions, and some of us gave some useful advice on what it could be. You dismissed those posts because you didn't understand them, then you started belittling the advice. The problems you saw in this thread were/are because you don't have the correct knowledge of this problem.

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