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-   -   Putting electrical fixtures in a shallow wall. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/putting-electrical-fixtures-shallow-wall-18534/)

RobertS 03-15-2008 04:55 AM

Putting electrical fixtures in a shallow wall.
 
This customer has gutted a bedroom. It is an old house with plaster and lath. One of the walls has the studs turned flat so it is actually only 2" deep. One side of the wall is open. Can I legally run wires safely in that wall. I have to come down from the attic to run the wires. It's a no weight bearing junk wall. I would tear it out and replace it with a new wall. I am concerned with drywall screws or picture hanging hitting the wire. I found knob, and tube wires cut off, and plastered in the wall. Yes they were hot.

CowboyAndy 03-15-2008 10:01 AM

No. My house is the exact same way. A standard 18CI box physically wont fit, and a shallow metal box is only good if you are only running 1 cable to each box because of fill. On top of that, with the stud being 2" (i am assuming rough cut, right?) you cannot achieve the 1 1/4" back from finished surface.

I have seen guys double up the studs, or use 1" furring strips to bring it out just enough to achieve 1 1/4". It would be a good idea to use metal protection plates, too.

jrclen 03-15-2008 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertS (Post 107808)
This customer has gutted a bedroom. It is an old house with plaster and lath. One of the walls has the studs turned flat so it is actually only 2" deep. One side of the wall is open. Can I legally run wires safely in that wall. I have to come down from the attic to run the wires. It's a no weight bearing junk wall. I would tear it out and replace it with a new wall. I am concerned with drywall screws or picture hanging hitting the wire. I found knob, and tube wires cut off, and plastered in the wall. Yes they were hot.

I wonder what your customers would think about you coming to a do it yourself forum to find out how to do your electrical contracting work? :laughing: :no:

chris75 03-15-2008 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyAndy (Post 107853)
No. My house is the exact same way. A standard 18CI box physically wont fit, and a shallow metal box is only good if you are only running 1 cable to each box because of fill.

Whats wrong with a 4"sq box and a plaster ring?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyAndy (Post 107853)
On top of that, with the stud being 2" (i am assuming rough cut, right?) you cannot achieve the 1 1/4" back from finished surface.

Who said you needed to be 1 1/4 from the finished surface? If your going to post information, at least find the information in the NEC first... and stop shooting from the hip....


Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyAndy (Post 107853)
I have seen guys double up the studs, or use 1" furring strips to bring it out just enough to achieve 1 1/4". It would be a good idea to use metal protection plates, too.


chris75 03-15-2008 10:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Take a look at 300.4 (D)

Attachment 2800

CowboyAndy 03-15-2008 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 107859)
Whats wrong with a 4"sq box and a plaster ring?



Who said you needed to be 1 1/4 from the finished surface? If your going to post information, at least find the information in the NEC first... and stop shooting from the hip....

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 107860)
Take a look at 300.4 (D)

Attachment 2800

The back of a finished surface (drywall for example) would be right against the outside edge of the framing member. How is that any different?


And I did not suggest a 4" box with a mud ring because I have no experience with them.

chris75 03-15-2008 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyAndy (Post 107874)
The back of a finished surface (drywall for example) would be right against the outside edge of the framing member. How is that any different?

Maybe I misread exactly what you were trying to say, were you trying to say you cannot drill the studs or just saying you cannot have a wire in between the studs? Either way the picture I posted shows the correct installation...

CowboyAndy 03-15-2008 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 107876)
Maybe I misread exactly what you were trying to say, were you trying to say you cannot drill the studs or just saying you cannot have a wire in between the studs? Either way the picture I posted shows the correct installation...

No, All I was saying is that you need to have that 1 1/4", and if you have a 2" stud and drull a 3/8 hole through the center, you don't have 1 1/4" on both sides. Using a 1" furring strip gives you JUST ENOUGH space. Using another 2/x on top of the existing stud gives you even more clearence.

chris75 03-15-2008 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyAndy (Post 107878)
No, All I was saying is that you need to have that 1 1/4", and if you have a 2" stud and drull a 3/8 hole through the center, you don't have 1 1/4" on both sides. Using a 1" furring strip gives you JUST ENOUGH space. Using another 2/x on top of the existing stud gives you even more clearence.

okay cool... sorry I misread your post...

bwinters12 03-15-2008 11:29 AM

Furring out the wall is overkill. If you are worried about nails going into the wire just sleve the wire in emt or pvc conduit.

CowboyAndy 03-15-2008 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 107879)
okay cool... sorry I misread your post...

It's cool... I tend to misread too, and have done the same. It's all good.
Quote:

Originally Posted by bwinters12 (Post 107882)
Furring out the wall is overkill. If you are worried about nails going into the wire just sleve the wire in emt or pvc conduit.

I guess its a matter of preference. Personally I think that would be overkill, plus more work than needed. I could fur out a 10' wall in about 20 min and be done with it.

Using conduit, there is assembeling the conduit fitting and such, and aren't you supposed to use thhn in it? Then you have to change over from romex to thhn, that inclused buying wire you may not already have, etc.



(correct me if I am wrong about using romex in conduit, unless it is only for a short distance and only for physical protection?)

bwinters12 03-15-2008 12:06 PM

emt or pvc are both acceptable methods for protecting NM against physical damage.(334.12 B). You do not need to change over to THHN.

220/221 03-15-2008 12:20 PM

Quote:

emt or pvc are both acceptable methods for protecting NM against physical damage

Yeah, that ^

CowboyAndy 03-15-2008 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwinters12 (Post 107891)
emt or pvc are both acceptable methods for protecting NM against physical damage.(334.12 B). You do not need to change over to THHN.

Is there a certain length that you can do it for?

chris75 03-15-2008 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwinters12 (Post 107882)
Furring out the wall is overkill. If you are worried about nails going into the wire just sleve the wire in emt or pvc conduit.

Maybe required to obtain the proper insulation value anyway.... just my 2 cents... I know I would fur it out for insulation alone...


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