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Old 06-13-2012, 03:45 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
Not quite, I'm originally from New York and then lived in South Carolina before moving to France and finely Kentucky. If you know anything about the codes in the Chicago area he would certainly agree! They are some of the most backward and not consumer friendly codes in the United States.
So what part of that has to do with you bashing the unions?
I was in agreement with your post until you started bashing.
Go to the library and read a book on labour history.

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Old 06-13-2012, 03:49 PM   #32
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Go to the library and read a book on labour history.
I am afraid of what this is going to turn into, but I'll just say, history is just that, history.
The unions had their place and now are just bloated organizations riddled with corruption, elitism and even crime.

The union CANNOT stand on it's "Look what we did for the workers of this country" justification any more.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:08 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
I am afraid of what this is going to turn into, but I'll just say, history is just that, history.
The unions had their place and now are just bloated organizations riddled with corruption, elitism and even crime.

The union CANNOT stand on it's "Look what we did for the workers of this country" justification any more.
Agreed! The only thing they do his increase prices!
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:21 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Semi-Retired El View Post
Since an AHJ has the final say, if done legally, does your Jurisdiction ever go tighter than the Code?
Here in New Jersey we adopt the NEC through the UCC with certain modifications. None of the modifications are more stringent then the NEC, and in some cases are less. One example is we are still using some of the exceptions from 210.8 of the 2005 NEC. As for the final say, it doesn't quite work that way here either. If the EC or HO disagree with the EI then the EI can issue a Notice of Violation. On the NOV it will state that individual can take his case to the county Construction Board of Appeals (which is made up other inspectors from each dicipline and an Architect). If the BOA rules in favor of the EI then the case can be taken to the state BOA, and then to court. WIthout really going into depth here, it is safe to say that the EI does not have the final say. Unfortunately, all work stops until everything is resolved.

I have posted a lot of information about how New Jersey works in this post. If anyone wants more information, pm me.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:25 PM   #35
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That's just it. The AHJ does NOT have "the final say". WHY do so many people think this.

He CANNOT just say "That is not allowed because I don't like it."
This is correct. Please see the above post.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:57 PM   #36
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Enough of the union talk, pro or against, it has no place in a DIY forum.

I believe that we were discussing wagos or push in connectors.

If we digress and bring up different electrical codes, let's stick to codes.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:37 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
That's just it. The AHJ does NOT have "the final say". WHY do so many people think this.

He CANNOT just say "That is not allowed because I don't like it."
Also, the inspector is not the AHJ. The AHJ is the municipality, which employs the inspector to do the first-level code enforcement job. Codes are laws, indirectly. A court has the final say. The inspector himself isn't the ultimate authority on anything.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #38
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Also, the inspector is not the AHJ. The AHJ is the municipality, which employs the inspector to do the first-level code enforcement job. Codes are laws, indirectly. A court has the final say. The inspector himself isn't the ultimate authority on anything.
That's why I said the Jurisdiction can modify the NEC anyway they feel like, If done legally.

The NEC is not a code enforcing agency. They come up with what they feel is a good set of rules and each jurisdiction adopts or rejects all or any part they wish.

We're a nation of laws and 90.4 states it very clearly.

Art 100 also states: " The AHJ. An organization, office or individual responsible for enforcing the requirements of a code or standard, or for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:19 PM   #39
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Backstab connections on receptacles, etc. also have a flat metal plate and a spring to make contact with the inserted conductor.

If the wire end is not perfectly straight, it will contact the plate only at a few points as opposed to make a continuous line contact. In addition, as the wires are pushed into the box to finish the job, it is possible for stress on a solid wire to cause the end to separate from the metal plate inside the push in connector leaving just one tiny spot of contact.

Screw activated clamp type back connections as well as side terminal screws flatten the wire enough to make a continuous line contact.
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:39 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
Also, the inspector is not the AHJ. The AHJ is the municipality, which employs the inspector to do the first-level code enforcement job. Codes are laws, indirectly. A court has the final say. The inspector himself isn't the ultimate authority on anything.
Here in New Jersey one of changes the UCC makes to the NEC when it is adopted is to substitute words "Electrical Subcode Official" in place of AHJ throughout the entire. This means that the term AHJ has no legal standing in New Jersey. The Electrical Subcode Official is an individual as in a person and can also be the inspector. Oooh! Post #600. woot.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:02 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by electures View Post
Here in New Jersey one of changes the UCC makes to the NEC when it is adopted is to substitute words "Electrical Subcode Official" in place of AHJ throughout the entire. This means that the term AHJ has no legal standing in New Jersey. The Electrical Subcode Official is an individual as in a person and can also be the inspector. Oooh! Post #600. woot.
Which is further proof any jurisdiction can accept the NEC, reject the NEC, modify any part of it, make up their own Code etc.

And, they can name any group, individual etc. to enforce it.

If an electrician, butcher, baker or indian chief doesn't like any part of it or what the "enforcer" says or does he/she can take it all the way to the Supreme Court, on their dime.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:54 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Semi-Retired El View Post
Which is further proof any jurisdiction can accept the NEC, reject the NEC, modify any part of it, make up their own Code etc.

And, they can name any group, individual etc. to enforce it.

If an electrician, butcher, baker or indian chief doesn't like any part of it or what the "enforcer" says or does he/she can take it all the way to the Supreme Court, on their dime.
Don't know about that, but here in NJ it stops at one of the low level courts.

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