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Old 05-10-2011, 06:23 AM   #61
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Pump Control test Franklin


Final result of the Franklin Controller burn out.

I purchased a new all 'mechanical' dual capacitor controller for $125 from a well pump outfit that is closing down in Chipley, FL. Before I hooked it up I measured out the voltage from the house through the pressure switch and had 100 volts on both sides to ground. Thought it should be 115 but 100 probably works.

Anyway hooked everything up and I have water again. It should work well past the pump's life. And with the extra startup cap the motor should have a little more life.

Sure is nice to take a shower again and not at the office. And having a flush toilet is good, no midnight trips out to the woods to pee.

Thanks for all the help I have received on here. Hope this thread helps others as well.

Wet Wade in North Florida

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Old 06-07-2011, 09:23 AM   #62
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Pump Control test Franklin


I have a 1/2HP submersible in a 25' dug well with Franklin 230V 1/2HP motor control box. System is about 22 years old as far as I know, I've only been there 12 years.

The other night I woke up to a periodic rattling sound. Eventually tracked it down to the pump motor controller. The pressure guage was down to 20psi (below normal turn on, supposed to be 30/50) but the pressure switch was making good solid contact and contacts still look clean, I replaced this about 7 years ago after the previous one failed stuck in the on position. I turned off the breaker so I could sleep.

When I checked it next morning it did the same - I pulled the cover off the controller and measured the relay coil and thermal protection by the instructions in the box, both measured fine (5.2kohm and 0.2ohm). I then measured the wires to the pump - no ground fault (9.2Mohms) but not sure about the other readings:
Y-B (main) 6ohm - seems ok
Y-R (start) 8Kohm climbing to 14kohm on DMM - seems a bit odd
B-R 30kohm

Then I plugged the whole thing back together, turned on the breaker and moved the manual lever on the pressure switch through start and back to on and the pump clicked on normally and pressure ran up to 50psi over about 30s or so (normal, tank is a bit undersized.) Then I ran some water and pump kicked in about 25psi and ran up to 50psi again. I've probably run another three or four cycles since - so far no rattle.

Turn on is a bit low - I'll check the pressure switch and bladder tank charge tonight but I don't think that explains the relay chatter in the controller at all.

I seem to have water for now but at this point I don't trust it won't happen again (and probably when I'm in the shower covered in soap.) I could replace the controller for $100 but I'd like to know that I'm replacing the right part.

Any thoughts on what is wrong or what else I should check? Unfortunately I don't have a clamp ammeter.

Thanks for your help,
Peter
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:08 PM   #63
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Pump Control test Franklin


HOw much water had you been using the day the problem existed? could the well have been low on water?
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:22 PM   #64
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Pump Control test Franklin


Thanks joed,

Not a huge amount of water - washed the car in the afternoon and at midnight the softener ran - must have finished about the time the relay started chattering because nothing else would have taken water. I'll take a peek tonight but I would be very surprised to have low water - we had good winter run-off and we're getting ridiculous amounts of rain so far.

When I bought the place (end of a dry fall) the measured flow was just over 1GPM with still 8-12' of water in 3' dia. tile after pumping out a couple hundred gallons - not high flow but plenty of reserve.

It only ran dry once about 10 years ago and that was when the other half did three loads of laundry the morning right after the water softener spent the night stuck in flush cycle. No relay chatter then, just no water from the taps, took a couple of hours for it to recharge, no problem since.

I am most concerned about the resistance of the start coil - would have thought it should be much lower. I guess I should check the pressure in the bladder too but it took the normal time to pump from 30-50psi so I suspect it is okay.

Thanks,
Peter
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:48 PM   #65
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Pump Control test Franklin


I do have a comment an question about the Franklin control boxes. I deal with mostly the 5, 7.5 and 10 hp boxes and everyone has a wiring diagram and troubleshooting legend on the inside cover of the box. Don't the smaller hp boxes have this as well? I know that Franklin has a great deal of information online, but when you are in a pit or well house it's unlikely you will have a laptop with you.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #66
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Pump Control test Franklin


Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
Those resistance readings are actually pretty close for a 1HP motor, especially with a couple of hundred feet of cable from the controller to the well. If the resistance from any wire to ground is infinite, I'd say the motor is ok.

I've seen a few of those electronic controls fail, if it were me, I'd get a mechanical controller for a 1HP 3 wire pump motor. It hooks up the same way as the one you've got. Two wires in and 3 out, plus the ground.

Rob


MM, I have a Franklin controller for a 2hp submersible and the pump stopped working. I've pulled the pump (sits in a water box off of a ditch ) Using the directions I have seen here, I have made the following measurements off of the collections of four wires coming out of the pump:

RB = 8.5 ohms
RY = 6.5 ohms
RG 1 mega ohm
BY = 2.1
GY = 500k ohm
GB = 260k ohm

G = the yellow/green wire that I assume is ground.

The pump is a Franklin 2243019204 and the controller is 282 3018 110.

There is voltage all the way through the controller box to the pump leads coming out of the pump.

I think the pump is shot based on what I see here.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:40 PM   #67
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Pump Control test Franklin


Quote:
Originally Posted by mccauley444 View Post
MM, I have a Franklin controller for a 2hp submersible and the pump stopped working. I've pulled the pump (sits in a water box off of a ditch ) Using the directions I have seen here, I have made the following measurements off of the collections of four wires coming out of the pump:

RB = 8.5 ohms
RY = 6.5 ohms
RG 1 mega ohm
BY = 2.1
GY = 500k ohm
GB = 260k ohm

G = the yellow/green wire that I assume is ground.

The pump is a Franklin 2243019204 and the controller is 282 3018 110.

There is voltage all the way through the controller box to the pump leads coming out of the pump.

I think the pump is shot based on what I see here.
The Franklin book lists resistances for the 2 HP 224310 motor as;

Y-B = 1.8 to 2.3

Y-R should be 5.8 to 7.2

R-B will be the sum of the other two.

Your resistances are normal, but there should be infinite resistance from green to any other wire.

Given the low resistances to green, I'd say the motor is in the process of burning up.

The current should be;

Y - not more than 13.2

B - not more than 11.9

R - not more than 2.6

If red is near zero current, check for an open run capacitor. If red is way high, check for shorted run capacitor or the start relay not opening its contact.
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #68
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Pump Control test Franklin


Hi folks! Been a long time since anyone posted to this thread so I hope someone who knows about wells can help me.

We had a huge thunderstorm here in Washington State on Thursday night. Lightning struck very close to the house (it sounded like a gun going off next to my ear) and we lost the telephone and no water. Didn't realize we had no water until Friday morning and spent all day trying to troubleshoot it myself. There was a burned out glass fuse with scorch marks on it so I replaced it. Got water but I have another huge project going so as soon as I heard the well pump running I thought I had solved the problem. Came back in pretty late in the evening and again I didn't have any water. Great! Weekend without any water or phone and today is Sunday.

It seems that when I turn on the well system, the well pump runs for about 30 seconds and then shuts off so with a couple of forced runs I was able to fill the tank enough to take short showers. I took the (Franklin) control box off yesterday and into the house and I noticed that the capacitor (mine has two for 1 1/2 hp, 20 gpm pump) was just slightly melted looking or corroded in one area. With the forced runs last night to fill the water tank I noticed that the capacitor is now really leaking and gets very hot. Will the winding readings be off because I need to replace the capacitor? Should I just go ahead and replace the whole control box or should I take the wellhead off first and take reading on the lines there.

When you say test the red/yellow/black to ground, what do you mean? Do you mean, turn the power off, bundle the three wires together, put red wand from ohm meter to the bundled r/y/b and the black wand to ground?

My Franklin has more than three wires. I know it has an orange and a blue as well so what other tests do I need to perform?

Any help anyone could give me would be appreciated.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:15 PM   #69
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Pump Control test Franklin


The capacitor is obviously bad and needs to be replaced. If there's a Grainger wholesaler nearby, they usually have them in stock, if not, a motor shop will be able to get one.

Capacitors have two ratings, voltage and capacitance (Ufd or mfd or mf). Stick with the same Ufd (it's usually a range, like 200 - 240) and the voltage of the new one needs to be the same or higher.

To test the motor, first shut off the power going to the control box. Next, disconnect all 3 wires boing from the box to the well. Measure resistance (ohms) by placing one probe (it doesn't matter if it's red or black) on one of the wires and the other probe on another wire.

Since there are 3 wires, there are 3 combinations of two wires. Write down the readings.

Also, test from any of the wires to ground. The best spot for ground is the green screw in the control box, but any bare metal part of the box or an electrical panel will work. This reading needs to be infinite (O/L on a digital meter).

The resistance you get with the wires will vary depending on the motor HP and the distance from the control box to the bottom of the well. The capacitors won't effect the resistance readings, because they are not in the circuit when you're testing.

According to my Franklin book, the resistance for a 1 - 1/2 HP 230 volt motor should be around 2 Ohms from yellow to black, and around 9 Ohms from yellow to red. Black to red will be close to the sum of the other two.

There are two components that normally fail in a control box; the capacitor(s) and/or the start relay. This relay has 3 terminals, one of them has a black wire, another has red, and the other has orange.

If this relay is stuck in the start position, it'll burn up the start capacitor. This capacitor has the orange wire on one of its terminals. It will also trip the overload fairly quickly. The only way to test the relay is by measuring current on the orange wire when the pump is running. It should have current for a second or so when it first starts, then zero when it's running.

There's a good chance that the lightning went from the electrical service to the house through the wiring to the well. A well is an excellent ground, and that is what lightning is looking for. When it did, it could easily have 'welded' the contacts of the start relay, so it is always in the start position.

Rob

Last edited by micromind; 09-08-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:15 PM   #70
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Pump Control test Franklin


THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GETTING BACK TO ME SO SOON!

Just a little more information. The well head is approximately 250 feet from the house and the pump is down at 165 feet. How will that affect the readings?

If I remember correctly from yesterday, one of the readings (I think relay coil) was supposed to be in the thousands (4,000+) and I got nothing and that's when I gave up. I'll do it again today just in case I was doing it wrong. I also didn't know what a reading of 1 means but if I Googled it correctly it means Infinity, correct?

I'll post those reading a little later tonight as I'm still working on a huge project (while I've got daylight) so my living room doesn't fall off a bunch of jack posts. Yikes!
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:38 PM   #71
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The distance from the control box to the well will add about 0.5 Ohms to the readings.

Some meters will read 1 for infinity.

The yellow and red wires on the relay should have resistance between them, but that doesn't mean the relay is good. If the contacts are welded together, the coil will not be able to disengage the start winding.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:24 PM   #72
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Pump Control test Franklin


Hi Micromind. Here are my readings using a digital ohm meter set to the lowest setting of 200:

Red to Black: 11.2
Red to Yellow: 9.3
Yellow to Black: 3.1

Ground (green) to each of the colored wires: All the readings were 1

Can you tell me if my pump motor is bad from these readings?
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #73
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The motor is almost certainly ok.

More than likely, the start relay is bad (contacts do not open), and the start capacitor is obviously bad. The run capacitor is probably ok.
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:58 PM   #74
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Pump Control test Franklin


Whew, may have dodged a bullet on that one.

Sounds like you're leaning toward changing out just the switch and start capacitor. I prefer that option and will call Grainger in the morning to see if I can acquire both parts.

I'll keep you posted and let you know how it worked out. Thank you for your knowledge and excellent advice.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:06 PM   #75
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If possible, get the info from the bad capacitor, there are a bunch of different ones.

Also, if the relay has a part number on it, it'll help to get the right one.
The control box number is very likely 282 300 8110, but it could be different.

The motor number is likely 224300, but could be different. This one is not very important though.

On some control boxes, the capacitor is different with different date codes, it'd be good to have this info when you call.

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