Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-11-2010, 12:25 PM   #46
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,618
Rewards Points: 1,030
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


My guess is that the motor is OK.

The Franklin book lists winding resistance as 1.7-2.2 for the main winding (Y-B), and 8.0-9.7 for the start (Y-R). Your readings are OK. Well temperature and length of wire from the control box to the motor will have an effect on this.

The current is listed as Y=10.0-11.5, B=9.9-11.0, and R=1.1-1.3 Again, your readings are OK.

If the rotor were locked up, the current would be somewhere around 40-50.

If your water has a lot of minerals in it, it's possible that the intake screen is clogged, or more likely the slots in the well casing have become clogged. This would explain the very short pumping at first.

It's also possible that the water table has lowered to just above the pump intake screen, and it pumps a bit at first, then sucks air, and cavitates. It won't pump water again until it's turned off and the air gets out of the impellers.

If there's sand in the water, the impellers could be worn down too.

Rob

micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 02:36 PM   #47
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


And you are correct. The motor was just fine. I pulled the pump (it is 80' down) and just as I got the motor to the top of the well, the motor dropped off the end of the pipe and started going back down.

My father-in-law grabbed the electrical wire and I grabbed the attached nylon rope and we were able to get it out safely.

The pipe company said the threads on the schedule80 were warped by heat. Apparently the motor had worked itself loose and so when it was turned on it just squirted water out the side.

The check valve on the motor/pump no longer worked, so I installed a new one. I dropped the pump back into the well and now I have the sprinklers running again.

I had replaced the pressure switch at the pressure bladder and I will monitor it more closely.

I sincerely appreciate the time you took to read this post.

Everything posted above in regards to to resistances is correct (This is for people searching this topic in the future).

Thanks,
Eric
genericuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 07:21 PM   #48
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,618
Rewards Points: 1,030
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


It's always good to know that something worked out.

Thanks for posting back with the results.

Rob
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2010, 02:42 PM   #49
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Thanks micromind!!!
I registered to thank you for the info on cking the pump resistance. Been without water for 24hrs. I did a search and this thread came up. Replaced 7yo box. Total w/ pressure gauge- $46.00. Still need to purchase an amp meter to ck pump current draw.
200ft 1/2hp pump 3 wire readings disconnected at box were:
R-Y 11 ohms, Y-B 8 ohms, B-R 19 ohms
Hope to pay forward to this forum someday.
whatmeworry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 10:47 PM   #50
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Hey guys! I am a sprinkler repair guy in the Dallas area. I have a customer that has a submersible pump in the lake by his house. I replaced it several years ago and also replaced the control box (Franklin 2801084915).
The City drained the lake for dam repairs and that took a couple of years. Now the pump doesn't work. I don't know anything about ohms and the like so reading through this thread is all Greek to me. So, I got a gadget that lights up and beeps when you touch it to a wire with current running through it. I am not getting any signal at all to the wire that goes to the pump. On the Control Box I get a signal for current on L1 and L2 but nothing on R Y or B. Does the Pump Relay send power to the Control Box? I'm thinking it either has to be the Pump Relay or the Control Box. (Duh) But I am really not sure how the process works for getting power to the pump. I'm thinking that it is the Pump Relay. Any thoughts?
DanFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 12:58 PM   #51
rwh
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Ok I'll start over. I was away from the editor too long I guess.

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread. Although this is about a Franklin controller.

I have a burned out controller. The two switching transistors are fried. I'm having trouble id'ing the controller board. I can make out the last 4 numbers, ....4910, and there is possibly a 78 for the first two numbers of the model number. In the Date area there is a C93. So this box is probably 15-20 years old.

The inside, see pic, contains a cap with 105-126 MFD for 230VAC. It's 2"x4". There is a circuit board with two Transistors that are burned out. A micro-relay that has 1 HP 230V capacity and a number on it 152138904. Does this mean it's controlling a 1 HP motor?



It controls a 3 wire pump motor with Red, Yellow, B wires. See pic. The inside looks just like the diagram on this thread.



I haven't looked at the pressure switch yet or ohmed the motor leads. I need to bring back my meter from home. I live in this cabin during the week for the new job I have. Not sure of the history on the pump either.

I don't what blew the controller. There was no lightning anywhere near between the time I used it last and my attempt to run some water for cooking. Possibly a bug crawled in and shorted something. It's exposed to the elements and Florida has some serious bugs.

So what controller should I get to replace this one. Or can I actually get the little controller board with the micro-relay and transistors? The board is approximately 1"x2". I can clean up the box.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Wade in NW Florida, currently near Tallahassee.

Last edited by rwh; 04-20-2011 at 01:02 PM.
rwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 09:02 AM   #52
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFu View Post
Hey guys! I am a sprinkler repair guy in the Dallas area. I have a customer that has a submersible pump in the lake by his house. I replaced it several years ago and also replaced the control box (Franklin 2801084915).
The City drained the lake for dam repairs and that took a couple of years. Now the pump doesn't work. I don't know anything about ohms and the like so reading through this thread is all Greek to me. So, I got a gadget that lights up and beeps when you touch it to a wire with current running through it. I am not getting any signal at all to the wire that goes to the pump. On the Control Box I get a signal for current on L1 and L2 but nothing on R Y or B. Does the Pump Relay send power to the Control Box? I'm thinking it either has to be the Pump Relay or the Control Box. (Duh) But I am really not sure how the process works for getting power to the pump. I'm thinking that it is the Pump Relay. Any thoughts?
Dan - I am confused as to what this "gadget" is. Anything that you touch to make a measurement is either measuring voltage or resistance. In order to measure current, you need a meter that you can clamp around the wire that you are measuring.

What is this "Pump relay" that you talk about? Is it a pressure switch near a pressure vessel? If so, that is what controls the L1/L2 voltage and current.

How many wires leave the control box heading to the pump motor (I am assuming 4- R, Y, B, G) since you are using a control box.

So you know that you are getting L1/L2 voltage (which implies the pressure switch is operating correctly). If you measure from L1 to L2 are you getting 230 volts?

Is there an overload switch on that control box? If you reset the switch and apply power does it pop after 3 seconds or so?

When you apply power to the control box, What are the current readings on the red and yellow wires?
genericuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 09:19 AM   #53
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Wade-

My guess is that this control box was set up to use a 1HP pump motor.

If it was me, I would test the windings on the motor from the control box to see if the motor is still showing good. Test RYB to green to be sure there is no short.

Using you meter, what is voltage difference between L1 and L2? Knowing that shows you the table entires to use for measuring the winding resistances.

If the resistances show that the motor seems fine, I would simply buy a new franklin control box that can control a 1HP motor. If the resistances indicate that the motor is bad, I would buy a whole new setup.

I cant tell for sure from your second picture. Are there wires attached to L1 and B?
genericuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2011, 12:38 PM   #54
rwh
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Yes, wires are both hooked up. The L1 is just visible, it's either black or dark blue and the B connection is black if I remember correctly. I shot them with my old iPhone 3G, so the pizel count is not high and the close focus isn't as good as the later phones. I'll ohm out the wires when I go back to the cabin tonight. I have my ohm meter with me on this trip.

I'm a little scared that the pump motor or wiring is faulty due to the catastrophic burnout of the switching transistors. Either one will involve a lot more effort than replacing the controller.

Thanks for your help. I'll post in the morning my readings.

Wade

Last edited by rwh; 04-26-2011 at 12:43 PM.
rwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 08:44 AM   #55
rwh
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Unhappy

Pump Control test Franklin


genericuser:
Yesterday afternoon I ohmed out the leads to the well pump. I did it twice. Once with an analog meter and once with a digital meter. Both gave the same results.....

Black to Yellow 3-4.5 ohms
Black to Red 14-14.5 ohms
Yellow to Red 14-14.5 ohms

Which doesn't look good does it? Does this mean at least one leg of the pump is shorted? That would cause the switching transistors to blow I suppose.

Again the well is 170' deep. And I'm guessing the pump is down 80 to 100 feet?

What do you think, pull the pump?

There was no green wire which I suppose is the ground or chassis wire.

Thanks, Wade
rwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 12:10 AM   #56
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,618
Rewards Points: 1,030
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwh View Post
genericuser:
Yesterday afternoon I ohmed out the leads to the well pump. I did it twice. Once with an analog meter and once with a digital meter. Both gave the same results.....

Black to Yellow 3-4.5 ohms
Black to Red 14-14.5 ohms
Yellow to Red 14-14.5 ohms

Which doesn't look good does it? Does this mean at least one leg of the pump is shorted? That would cause the switching transistors to blow I suppose.

Again the well is 170' deep. And I'm guessing the pump is down 80 to 100 feet?

What do you think, pull the pump?

There was no green wire which I suppose is the ground or chassis wire.

Thanks, Wade
Those resistance readings are actually pretty close for a 1HP motor, especially with a couple of hundred feet of cable from the controller to the well. If the resistance from any wire to ground is infinite, I'd say the motor is ok.

I've seen a few of those electronic controls fail, if it were me, I'd get a mechanical controller for a 1HP 3 wire pump motor. It hooks up the same way as the one you've got. Two wires in and 3 out, plus the ground.

Rob

Last edited by micromind; 04-28-2011 at 12:28 AM.
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 05:57 AM   #57
rwh
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Thanks micromind. I'll give it a shot. I have a mechanical controller on my well at the farm above Bonifay, FL. They are a little more rebust controller I think.

I was surprised the switching transistors weren't heatsinked on the burned out controller. As heat is the enemy of solid state electronics, anything you can do to cool them makes them last longer.

Thanks everyone for all your help on here. I'll post and let you know how it comes out.

Thanks, wade
rwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 03:32 PM   #58
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


Wade-

Did you verify RYB to ground? that was the last step micromind mentioned to be sure the motor was good.

I am glad you do not have to pull your pump out.

Last thing... What is a mechanical controller?
genericuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2011, 11:45 PM   #59
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,618
Rewards Points: 1,030
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


A mechanical controller uses mechanical relays, as opposed to an electronic one which uses electronic switches.

Electronic motor control certainly has its place, I deal with it on an almost daily basis, but for a simple well pump, I'd go with mechanical.

Rob
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2011, 05:55 AM   #60
rwh
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pump Control test Franklin


I did not see a ground to test to, ie a green wire. I suppose I should have tried the different legs to the box as that should be chasis ground. I'll check again to see if there is a chasis ground from among the pump wires. I see a chassis ground on the power side, but with the cover off of the box to expose the wires the pump motor is disconnected from the power side. But I'll look again.

It'll have to be Sunday night though as I head out from work today to go home and will not make it back to the cabin till Sunday afternoon. I'll post Monday when I have access to the internet.

Looking forward to a decent shower at home.

Thanks, Wade

rwh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
box, control, pump, submersible


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fujitsu Heat Pump Concerns SanDiegoCool HVAC 3 03-19-2009 12:27 PM
sump pump issue mikehende Plumbing 15 02-15-2008 06:36 AM
Foundation drain and sump pump slatergrl Plumbing 3 02-10-2008 09:36 AM
sump pump continuing running deck hand Plumbing 2 01-16-2008 04:35 PM
Well pump issue-should I be concerned? Mikedks Plumbing 8 10-08-2006 10:42 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.